Are We Raising a Generation of Wimps?

[Eagle92]

OK I need to rant. The original thread that this spun off of, as well as an incident today, have just ticked me off. I need to vent.

 

Ok I think the new eagle rules are assinine.

 

under the new BSA guidelines you must be 14+ to use a "Wheel cart (1-, 2-, or 4-wheeled)"

 

So if you weant to get real anal retentive about it, Cub Scouts cannot use their red wagons on camp outs to move stuff around sicne it is a 4 wheeled cart.

 

Ditto Pickaxes and mattocks, 14 plus. BUT a 10yo Boy Scout with his Totin Chip can use a 3/4 axe with no problem.

 

I'm glad the 16+ rule wasn't around for lawnmowers, edgers, trimmers, blowers, and hedge trimmers wasn't around when I was working to raise money for my Jambo/Canada trip as I did cut lawns as a fundraiser. Started at 14. BUT I was cutting my huses yard since 9.

 

As for the circular saws jig saws, power sanders, etc, I worked for one organization that taught 11-18YOs how to use them.

 

Now I'm a Scouting addict, but the thing that drove me over was today. I proctor exams as a service to the community. It's part of my job. I had 1 student come in today and we had some problems.

 

Now the initial problem was the prof's fault. Prof. didn't send the information needed to conduct the exam, and after 1.5 hours trying to get the info, I got it form another prof. Forgot to add that apparently this prof doesn't use the 16 university wide proctoring service that all theothers I've dealt with use.

 

But here's the aggrevating part. This student stated that under the Americans With Disablilities Act (ADA), she is entitle to extra time tot take the test, specifically she has doubel the time everyone else has. So the 3.5 hour exam the class takes, she can have 7 hours. What the heck!

 

Now don't get me wrong, I know why the ADA was created. I've dated a girl with a disability, had to temporarily use it myself when I had my accident, my son is labeled "disabled" ( more on that one in a minute), and as I discovered today I am disabled under ADA because I have ADD, which is what the student is using for the ADA complaince.

 

After waiting and trying to get the info needed for the exam for 1.5 hours, when the student learned that at the absolute most I could proctor her for 3.5 hours (and I am in some trouble for scheduling the test as it is, I'd get in more trouble if I went over in my hours, but it is a service to the community we provide), the student didn't feel "comfortable" taking the exam in the 3.5 hour time span, which everyone else in the class has, and she arranged to take it another day.

 

I'm sorry, but if I waited 1.5 hours, I would have tried by best to finish it. Esp. since the student has to take a day off from work to take the exam.

 

STUDENT...DIDN'T...EVEN...TRY...TO..TAKE..THE...EXAM!!!!

 

I have ADD, so I know how challenging it can be. But I have not let it stop me. I "sucked it up" and pushed on.

 

Like I said my son is technically disabled b/c he has speech problems. His speech problems comes and goes, and there is not anything the speech therapy folks can do b/c the problem is mental, not physical. I can't remember what it's called, but basically he has problems speaking when his brain is learning new words and concepts. He had to repeat what he is learning over time in order to not stutter.

 

I do not pamper him, use ADA for him when he tests, or anything like that. I treat him like any 8yo, with the exception that I do work with him to get the words pronounced correctly and let him practice saying the words a few times. I know for a fact that the speech problems lowered his overall Language Skills scores on a standarized test he took that took into account speech. No problems with reading comprehension, but the speech score dropped his score to the point that the overall score is "normal" for his age and grade.

 

So are we raising a generation of wimps? Are we raising a bunch of kids who are afraid to do things? Are we raising a bunch of kids who won't even try?

 

I have a Bear who has a physical disabilty. And yes he was a little afraid to try and learn knots since he only has use of one hand. But guess what. When I showed him some tricks to tie knots one handed, you should of seen him when after many attempts he got the first one tied. And he kept on practicing.

 

Why can't we have folks focus on overcoming their disabilities?

 

Ok rant over, feeling better, off the soap box.

[Tampa Turtle]

Eagle92, I will now step up on the soapbox.

 

Q: Are we raising a generation of wimps?

A: Yes.

 

But the ADA issue is a separate one if overlapping one.

 

My son has multiple disabilities and he fights very hard, very courageously to overcome many tasks all day long. But yeah he is entitled to extra time, too. He is already starting from an inequality...but we do require him to TRY. Yeah I would have an issue with a student who wouldn't even try. But...oh yeah...even knowing all the problems he has it is very frustrating as a parent...when is it a legitimate problem and when is it a typical teen gaming the situation. Plenty of times we have done the "tough it out" approach and, truth be told, looking back I was being pretty cruel. Buy yes not even trying--that is not right.

 

I see this with many, many scouts. They will not even try unless they are guaranteed success.

 

So we have the general cultural stuff -like the new Eagle guidelines (which I ran by some mom's last night--the didn't believe I was serious) and the very difficult questions of reasonable accommodation under the ADA. I think they may have one thing in common and it is us. And it has applications for scouting.

 

ADA accommodations were made into law partially because folks were just too lazy to get to know a person and make a reasonable accommodation. Had to get all lawyered up because it is so much easier to do the same thing over and over. Wheelchairs--I remember all the folks who couldn't be bothered with wheelchair ramps before ADA.

 

BSA Safety over-regulation is because some adults are too lazy to adequately supervise boys entrusted with their care and some got hurt. Could got to know them, show how to do things safely and keep an eye on things. Some didn't and we all pay. BSA is, if they think this is REALLY an issue, didn't think to make an honest effort on some more safety training just issue some CYA rules. Lazy again.

 

I will get down now.

[OldGreyEagle]

I don't know as its people getting lazy as much as its a lawyers need to make a buck. We know that if you see a warning label on something, like a ladder, its most likely because somebody did something and got hurt and sued the ladder maker because it lacked a proper warning. So, now we have ladders with the paint holder shelf emblazoned with a sticker that says "Not a Step" or some such thing.

 

Lawyers runb ads trolling for customers, not liking your life? I can help you figuer out who is to blame and we will sue them blind, just let me try for you

 

no fee unless I collect, I mean we collect

 

Society went down the tube, lawyers just greased it

[JMHawkins]

We are not raising a generation of whimps.

 

We've already raised one, and it's put itself in charge of making age-appropriate guidelines.

 

The question now is, are the rest of us courageous enough to replace these fools who think it's dangerous for a 12 year old to use a wheelbarrow with sensible folks? Because that's what's needed.

 

Unreasonable saftey rules are in fact counterproductive. Quick, what makes up the bread in the SSD sandwich? Supervision and discipline, right? Both are undermined by rules like the ones in the spun thread. Disciple ultimately requires respect, and rules that don't pass the laugh test erode respect, and eventually discipline. And Supervision is undermined by stack-of-phonebook rules that can't be easily remembered and that are long on official definitions but short on common sense. Do you want the guy supervising the waterfront to have his nose buried in the G2SS clarifying subsection 3.g, or do you want him watching the people in the water?

 

 

[Deaf Scouter]

From this 'differently abled' person, moi, let's put this in another perspective...

 

What happens if they go forward and attempt to finish it without pulling the ADA law and fail? Do they get a second attempt?

 

I agree that the person should have gone forward in trying but too many have and failed. Sometimes the situation and the importance of it will determine if the person will go forward. Trying in a den meeting is not the same as passing a college course. Age is also another factor. Failing again and again as a child sees the wisdom in having the ADA law behind one to stop yet ANOTHER failure. (Then again some of us have yet to learn an old sage...Try and try again and there is great satisfaction in aiming to succeed on the first try and earning it rather than have it given or taking a shortcut!)

[Scoutfish]

Yes...no....maybe?

 

The pendulum ios on the opposite side of the swing.

 

Used to be a time when an eptileptic was yelled at for having fits.

 

Dyslexics where just thought to be dumb or trouble makers.

 

No consideration for anything that was slightly off for you. Either you were okay or you were "retarded".

 

Speaking of "retarded"...how many were sent away to institutions because it was a black mark on a families name to have a less than stellar child.

 

So alot of great stuff is out there, but unfortunatly, it is also at a time that we are full of the opinion that " it's not may fault, everybody owes me something. the rules don't quite4 bapply to me, or I can sue somebody because....."

 

 

So while I do think we are pretty much in the right direction, there could still be some tweaking. And in some cases, it just is beyond my understanding.

Example: Yellow stres cards during boot camp. Really? If having a drill instructor yell at you is too stresful, what do you plan to do while at war cand are getting shot at, bombs blowing up around you and the enemy tracking your every move in an attempt to kill you?

 

That's right! Show him your yellow card!

 

So, yeah, things are heading the right way, we are just in the rough draft right now ...and some people are just taking advantage of it.

 

But hey, can you blame them? Every time you turn on the tv, some lawyer commercial is telling you that NOTHING is your fault!

[Deaf Scouter]

The things we learn on the boards... *jaw drops while asking

 

Yellow cards in the service?? You're kidding, right??? Doesn't a physical rule out all this stuff????... *scratching head

[Brewmeister]

Saying yes is an oversimplification. This is the generation of X games after all. I know I wouldn't go anywhere near a half pipe.

 

By the way, the yellow stress card is an urban legend.

[Eamonn]

Each and every generation looks at the next generation as having it too easy.

I look at my Grandparents farm in Ireland and how my Grandparents lived and wonder how the heck did they raise eight children? All too often when I'm looking at them I forget that is also the childhood home of my mother.

Many of the people around my age, the tail end of the baby boomer's go on about kids doing nothing, playing video games and never leaving their rooms. Yet we seem unwilling to accept responsibility for buying the kids all this stuff in the first place.

Some parents have got caught up in the quest for the best. They want or maybe even need for their kid to be the best. He needs to be on the traveling soccer team, he needs to be an A student, he needs to be on the track for Eagle. The sad thing is that when it looks like he isn't the best then it becomes OK to no longer try and OK to drop out.

We complain that our son is holed up in his room and not doing anything. But part of us likes it that way. If he is in his room we know where he is and we like to think that nothing bad is going to happen.

We buy our kids cell phones, not just because they pester the living daylights out of us, but for emergencies.I don't believe that there are that many more emergencies today that we didn't have twenty years back. The truth is that we parents feel better knowing that our kid is on this electronic leash.

"Are We Raising a Generation of Wimps?"

Maybe truth be told we older folks are the wimps,

Ea.

 

 

[Deaf Scouter]

Interesting twist to perspective, Eamonn!

 

Definitely something to chew on and/or think about.. *wika

[Basementdweller]

Deaf....I think eamon nailed it.....I don't think it is twisted at all..

 

There is a responsibility of the Parent to equip their children with the ability to function in society....Part of that is video games, cell phones and facebook......My kids don't have cell phones or facebook accounts. They will but when they get a little older.

 

 

It is my opinion that the human being needs struggle and conflict to be happy. Facebook provides that conflict and struggle as does texting and pictures.

 

Is my son softer than I was as a youth....yes, he doesn't hunt or fish or trek the woods as I did, he is not as physically fit as I was at his age....But his world is different. The way he views the world is different, there was no fast food on every corner, and we shared a phone with 6 of our neighbors......Today every 8 year old has a cell phone and the kids diets are made up of drive thru food.

 

 

Far as ADD or HDDD or what ever you want to call it....It is an excuse.....there were no ADD kids when I was in elementary school.....So in 40 years where did they come from??????

 

Lazy parents???? Most of my ADD boy are exactly that.....Single moms who did not discipline their kids when they were 2 and 3. They don't have any fear or respect of mom, they sure as heck aren't going to respect a teacher or scout leader. It is now become an industry of excuses for them.....

 

7 hours to take a 3.5 hour test......Lets try that in a work environment.....If I took 2 hours to do a 1 hour job I would be fired or the company I owned would be out of business. So this young lady, who is disabled, gets a job and can't be fired because of poor performance because she is disabled.....

 

 

[skeptic]

"Lazy parents???? Most of my ADD boy are exactly that.....Single moms who did not discipline their kids when they were 2 and 3. They don't have any fear or respect of mom, they sure as heck aren't going to respect a teacher or scout leader. It is now become an industry of excuses for them...."

 

Another direct nail strike Basement; saw an example this past weekend. New boy did what he wanted and no one stopped him. Amazingly, he is still talking to me, and I saw a flash of respect (hope not fear) when I stood my ground. No accountability in home or school for too many.

[BadenP]

IMHO kids have it easier due in large part to the technology currently available, but then so do the rest of us. Remember in school/college having to do research for a paper and shuffling down to the library and piling through tons of books. Now all they have to do is pick up their I-phone and it all pops up in front of them in five seconds Have you been to a library lately? The one near me looks more like a computer lab with one small section of dusty books in the corner. So do we have it easier yep and it is called progress. Those of us 40,50 or older may not think the change is so great but it is here to stay.

 

The downside of all of this has been a growing disinterest in the outdoors in our society, hiking, camping, kayaking, nature are all passe to this generation who would rather build robots, play computer games, talk on social network sites, etc. That is why the BSA membership and programs are in decline and why the BSA is adding all these science technology pieces to all the programs. The BSA is in a survialist mode which the kids might like but is a real departure from what scouting was and should be all about. That is why I am so thankful to my Venturing crew members and adults who still see and appreciate the real joys of the natural world. I hope that interest stays strong in the years to come otherwise, IMO, our world could be in even more serious trouble ecologically.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[boomerscout]

Most generations believe the younger generation has it too easy. Yet, sadly, I am reminded of the television program Big Bang Theory, the protagonists of which are into computer games. Want to go fishing? There's a computer game for that using your fishing rod shaped controller. Never have to get wet, and no touching yucky worms.

Want to take up archery? Just get out your bow shaped controller.

Need to duke it out with a rival? Both of you put on your electronic boxing gloves and have your electronic avatars do the actual fighting.

While some of these games may be of great help to the housebound disabled, is it us or they who are starting to lose touch with reality?

Some idjit on Scouting magazine asked if anyone thought the Hunger Games would increase the interest in archery? Those new programs should have been in place already.

[Eagle92]

A few comments.

 

1)"By the way, the yellow stress card is an urban legend." I have a retired USAF MSGT who told me otherwise. He was an instructor at a school dealing with folks outta basic and they had those cards during basic as they wanted to use them at the school.

 

2) As I stated I have ADD and I have mixed emotions. While 40 years ago it may not have been common, some research has shown that today's media intensive environment, i.e. cell phones, internet, texting, etc, has caused a jump in cases, as well as severity.

 

Talking to my doc I think one of the reasons why my ADD really took off in the past few years is that my job is computer based. Also there are ways to "self medicate" in the form of stimulants like caffeinated beverages. I think the 4-6 cups of coffee and 2 Mt Dews helped.

 

But here's the deal. IF I knew that A) there was a deadline for the exam, specifically Sunday, B) taking the exam on Monday would not only be going pass the deadline, but also force me tot take a day off from work, I would have pushed my self to do it.