Female Adult Female Webelos Leaders or Parents on Troop Campout?

[ScoutMomTex]

No one has officially done anything, my boys are still Bears. I'm just learning about the upcoming Webelo rank and introducing the boys to Boy Scout Troops is part of that. since we share a cCO and in the past years Webelos from our pack have camped with them, it is reasonable to expect this is something that will come up, correct?

 

I assume that all the local Packs have some sort of Troop /Webelo liaison? That's one of the many things I have to learn.

[qwazse]

J. A lot can happen in two years.

Usually the Cubmaster makes those contacts. He might simply give you a list of troops in the area. Troops might look up your pack and contact him. But here's what you can do ...

1. ask your CM for den chiefs. he should be able to touch base with the SM in your CO about identifying boys suitable for each den, with priority given to Webelos. There's nothing like. Boy Scout to help with all the Boy Scout material you'll be learning.

2. Appoint a male ADL and get him trained. That will allow you to delegate a campout with any exclusively male adult troops. Contrary to popular belief you don't owe it to parents to be present for each and every event. You sand the COR do owe it to them to provide caring adults who will do the job.

3. Camp and hike, a lot. Have fun.

[ScoutMomTex]

as to den chiefs, we very recently acquired a den chief, and he has already been a great help. He is 15, and a great role model for the boys. I look forward to having his help next year, and to giving him the opportunity to grow as a leader.

 

we do have two fathers who haven't been interested in official den leader status for a variety of reasons, but I do call upon them as they are able. one led with our pocket knife meeting last week, and I definitely plan to continue to reach out for their assistance.

 

will definitely inquire as to the protocol as to interacting with Troops.

[JMHawkins]

JTex, I think you have plenty to focus on just getting going as a WDL without worrying yet about camping rules a troop may have. I'd suggest waiting for events to develop for the time being. When you get an official invitiaton to a campout, if it comes with a restriction on mothers camping with their sons, you can address it with the SM then and let him know the rule doesn't work for you and your son. He might surprise you, the SM may be a perceptive fellow who "waives" the rule before even mentioning it to you. Especially if you end up as the COR (if I remember correctly, I think a CO with multiple units has to have the same COR for all units, so if you became COR for the Pack, you would also be COR for the Troop and your statement "that doesn't work for me" potentially takes on a different context...).

 

I disagree with qwazse about getting a dad to be ADL so your den can accomdate these rules. Since the restriction apparently doesn't come from the CO but rather from them SM, I think the SM can probably find a way to make it work for one campout with women along. I'm not entirely sure, but I think your den would still need a BALOO-trained adult along even if there are trained SMs because BALOO* and IOLS are targetted at different age groups. Like I said before, I don't think you need to go out of your way to accomodate the troops rules. Boys can still join the troop even if they didn't camp with them.

 

And in the overall scheme of things, it's probably more important for Boy Scouts to learn about recruiting and marketing than it is for Cub Scouts to learn about jumping through hoops. I also think it's good for Boy Scouts to learn that when you have the authority to make rules, you also have the responsibility for difficulties the rules create.

 

*BALOO - I forget the exact acronym, but this is the training an adult leaders should have to take Cub Scouts on outings. If you haven't gotten it yet, you should do that as part of getting ready to be a WDL. IOLS is the equivalent for adult leaders at the Boy Scout level.

 

 

[silasm]

You said about half the boys have gone to a neighboring Troop? Then it seems reasonable to camp with both Troop and let the boys decide what they like. Tell the parents "I will be attending the outing with the other Troop, but now with 'our' Troop because they do not allow women on campouts."

 

You are wrong, though, that a parent needs to accompany a Webelos on overnights. Webelos are allowed to Den camp without their parents. HOWEVER, someone must have BALOO training. You might want to warn "your" Troop that someone there will need to take BALOO if you (or another BALOO-trained Scouter) are not welcome to attend.

[moosetracker]

Actually BALOO is training for needed for Pack camping.. OWLS is training the Outdoor Webloes Leader Skills training.. If it is required or not I guess depends on your council.

 

National does not require it. Our council does, I was at an Area 1 workshop on training, and the Regional training person also said OWLS was required. I didn't have the heart to question him on it, as I had already been questioning and making comments most the day, and thought I would just let it go. Especially since when I questioned our council on it the Councils Program Director thought it WAS required per National, and I had to pull all sorts of documentation which was more showing that when National listed Required training, it was never listed, as opposed to a statment that said OWLS is not required.. Too long and complicated to try to ramble on about in a classroom setting.. And sidetracking the main discussion.

[moosetracker]

Basement - Our Den split up 50/50 to two different troops, then our son split to a troop no one from his den was at. All the boys stayed in scouting, and made Eagle..

 

Also the rule of "no women allowed" would be something that I would consider as a parent a right to direct my son to another troop (not any of the other boys mind you). But if the troop does not hold or teach the basic principles I want my son to have, then that is not a troop I would want him learning his ideas from. As a women who wants my son to learn to treat women as equals, I would not want him in a troop that did not have the same views. Because the troop they are in will have an effect on his charactor as he grows into manhood. If I did not think it would have any effect on his charator, then I probably wouldn't care.

 

Since this has been heavily debated, I know I am not the only one who views this as an old fashioned and non-positive viewpoint.

[Scoutfish]

BALOO is for PACK CAMPING , not den level camping.

 

A Webelos DL does not have to have BALOO to take his den camping . Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders (OWL) is recommended, but not required.

 

BALOO doesn't really add any value to a Webelos den camping, especially if at a joint troop function.

It mostly deals with making sure that you plan for everybody at a pack campout including brothers who are not cub scouts and sisters who really are not cub scouts. It keeps you mindful of mom and dad being there also.

 

BALOO is making sure you do a family campout that has a bit of scouting flavore to it.

 

OWLS is about a den of cub scouts camping. No brothers, no sisters. Full on scouting while camping.

 

I'd suggest that Webelos DL's or those who are about to become Webelos DL's take IOLS if they get the chance as it will be beneficial to a Webelos den.

 

Now, I also like all my leaders to take BALOO too that way we for sure always have somebody who is BALOO trained for a pack campout.

 

It's required that you have a BALOO trained person present/onsite while PACK camping.

[silasm]

I stand corrected about BALOO being required for Webelos camping. I certainly agree with Scoutfish that it doesn't add any value to Webelos Den camping, but I thought it was required nonetheless. It certainly wouldn't be the only BSA-required training that didn't add any value...

 

Our council hasn't even offer OWL in the six years I have been with the Pack. Our Pack is blessed with plenty of experienced outdoorsmen, but it would be nice to have confirmation that we are doing it "right".

[Scoutfish]

There was some talk about combining OWLS and IOLS, but so far........

 

But in reality, you might as well take IOLS as it is just as usefull for Webelos as OWLS is .

 

If you think about it, everything Webelos is pretty much about getting ready for Boy Scouts:

You dump achiebements and elective, parents can no longer sign off on things, they earn activity pins instead of achievements toward rank, they can use a patrol name and patch ( even though they are still called a den) , they can camp as a den instead of camping only with the pack, etc......

 

You could take OWLS, but before you know it, you will need to take IOLS if you crossover with them and become an ASM in a troop.

[Basementdweller]

Ya know moose......I can't tell you the times here and in person I hear that one of the reasons boys are in Boy scouting is for positive male role models........

 

The group dynamic is different with a woman around.....just the way it is....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[moosetracker]

Reason why since my Council requires OWLS (not IOLS) for Den leaders, I simply train everybody for IOLS then keep the Webs 2 hours more to do the differences of the training. And they get credit for both courses.

 

At our Area 1 training the Regional training person said that they were back to combining OWls/ IOLS AND Baloo into one training.. But, we are not top priority.. So who knows..

 

And this WAS something I questioned because the last the training times said to us, was that they decided NOT to combine the trainings..

 

The OWLs/IOLs I have no question can/should be combined (though other DTC in my council say they don't think they should be).. I will have to see how they combine BALOO though.. Somethings the same Cooking / campfire etc.. But alot different.. the rules & regs over cub camping, Dealing with family camping and a larger range of children through siblings that could range from infant to teen, as well as discussion on how to organize your camping equipment from families while troops have the equipment (going into details on equipment like this is a tent, this is a stove..) This added combo, without adding an extra day to the training I will need to see how the accomplish this.

[moosetracker]

So are you saying a father cannot be a positive role model to his son, if he stay married to the mother?

[Basementdweller]

You need to remember my world is much different than yours.

 

I have one boy scout who has both parents in the same household....the rest are divorced or absentee.

 

My scouts dads are bike gang members, in jail, uninvolved, drug dealers, or other wise too busy for their son's.

 

 

I have spent more than a couple nights around the campfire or after a meeting dealing with the dreaded my dad hates me outburst......

[Scoutfish]

It's kinda a big lumping of role models....

 

I can see Boy Scouting as a source of possitive male role models for those who are from broken homes where dad's invovlement is zero or where dad is there, but his presence and or behavior is worse than not being there ie: drunk, always too busy for anything invovling son, etc...

 

But for scouts who are in good homes with fathers who are invovled in there scouts lives...well, scouting isn't gonna compete with dad.

 

Of course, in my time with scouting,. I have seen uncles and grandfathers and uncle who are just as much a positive role model to teh boys as a dad could be. Matter of fact, considering the fact that they are not the actual father...I have to give them the highest props for that!