Prevented Planned Hazing Ritual

[ardie6500]

Our troop was on a campout this weekend when I got word of a planned hazing ritual by a few of the second year scouts. The first year scouts were to be sprayed in the face with bug repellent, but I was able to stop the incident before it happened. The most worrisome part of the incident was when I overheard the "leader" of this group say, "Let's make some bad memories for someone"

 

How do I handle discipline for these 3-4 scouts?

[Engineer61]

Depends on the attitude of the Scouts I suppose.

 

 

Without remorse ... "you got us this time, but wait till the next" ... lower the boom.

 

Remorseful ... maybe not so harsh.(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

[KC9DDI]

I think some more information is needed here?

 

What is your role with the troop? SM, ASM, parent?

 

How did you come to know of the situation before it happened?

 

Is this ritual a "tradition" in your troop, or is this the first time it's come up? Are there more possibilities of hazing in the immediate future?

 

What does the SPL and PLC think about this?

[qwazse]

If this is a first-time offense, have a scoutmaster conference with them and explain that Scouting is a place where people feel welcome and equal. If your SPL is mature, have him sit in on the discussion.

 

Gently bring up the incident. Ask them if anyone did something like that to them when they were new to the troop. Apologize to them if that happened, but point out that this type of imitation is not flattering!

 

Affirm that you have heard them promise to live up to the scout law, and one point of that law is "kind." Point out where you have seen them be kind in the life of the troop. Tell that you expect them to just as kind kind to new members. That means suppressing the desire to have fun by handing down a few "bad memories".

 

You might also want to point out that it's not thrifty to use insect repellant as mace. (Using mace offensively is not particularly thrifty either!)

 

Tell them you might understand how they would not have thought that this was a problem. But now that they know it is unacceptable, the "obedient" point of the law comes in to play, and you expect them to hold to that. Scouts that have a repeated problem with that point may be brought before the committee to determine if their lack of discipline merits suspension or loss of membership.

 

[Eagle92]

1) Welcome to the Forums!

 

2) Need some more info to make an adequate argument (clasical definition of the word).

 

3) Hazing has no place in Scouting.

[ardie6500]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I was participating as an parent at this outing. Scouting is not new to me, I have been a Den leader for my youngest son since Tigers. I have also been on many BS campouts, as my oldest son is now a Life scout with this troop.

 

At no time has any hazing ever occurred in the past, that's why I'm looking for some feedback.

 

I first became aware of the plans when my younger son heard rumors of the "initiation" and let me know.

 

Unfortunately, the main scout in question is as Engineer61 described, without remorse. Maybe it's time to have him sit down with the SM & SPL and recite and explain the Scout Oath line by line.

 

 

 

[Venividi]

If after SM conference there is no apparent remorse, then a suspension to give the unremorseful time to contemplate whether he wants either be part of the troop and live to the scout law, or to drop out of the troop. Then stick to it. You have the safety of the other boys to be concerned about.

[KC9DDI]

Ardie - Thanks for the additional clarification.

 

I mean no disrespect, but why is this something that you need to handle, rather than leaving it in the hands of the SM and SPL? I don't blame you for being concerned about the situation, and keeping an eye on the resolution - but a well-running troop already has a framework for dealing with these types of issues, and the key players are the youth leaders, with the support of the SM. It really shouldn't fall on parents to "handle discipline" in these types of situations, with the exception of their own children.

 

Maybe it's time to have him sit down with the SM & SPL and recite and explain the Scout Oath line by line.

 

I admire what you're trying to do, but at the same time I can't think of a single occasion when this type of approach was successful :-). Even in a case like this, an SM conference should be more of a conversation - not a lecture, and not an arbitrary exercise in reciting lines.

[SSScout]

The Scout"leader" you describe is a classic bully. He is out to make sure those "younger" than he remain subservient ,not equal, in stature. He has other issues. The need to laugh at others misfortune is a characteristic that does not indicate maturity. I would expect some problems at school, also.

A sit down with him, with his parents, and perhaps with the PLC may be in order.

I favor the Scout Promise and Law approach mentioned above.

The fact that they are Scouts means they "are better than this". Sometimes Scouts need to be reminded of this.

I was sub teaching a class when an office aide came in and handed me a note for one of my class. I asked for "Sarah Smith" and three hands shot up. (Let's play with the sub!) One immediately took her hand down and giggled. The other two indignantly argued that THEY were Sarah Smith. The seating chart indicated which was which, and I passed the note to Ms Smith . the other girl I took out in the hall and we discussed the idea of lying and telling the truth. She had a hard time letting go of the idea that she could "just be kidding" and not have consequences. The fact that I took her seriously in this, to her, minor thing seemed to make an impression on her.

Make the impression on this (and the others ) Scout.

[frankpalazzi]

This is a matter to be handled by the Scoutmaster and Senior Patrol Leader. Is there a reason why you attend many camping trips? Is there a problem securing two-deep leadership on outings? If so, why not sign up as an Assistant Scoutmaster?

[Beavah]

Hiya ardie6500! Welcome to da forums!

 

I'm just goin' to "ditto" KC9DDI. Yeh stopped the incident, yeh brought it to the attention of the SM, now any discipline is up to the SPL, the SM, and perhaps the committee. This is more than a conversation sort of thing in my book, eh? It's a premeditated and dangerous planned assault, and the lack of remorse is a serious issue. It's more along the lines of a suspension and serious conversation with the parents sort of thing, with a separate conversation with the rest of the troop so that boys know the expectations, and know where to turn if they are being bullied.

 

B

 

[Peregrinator]

Affirm that you have heard them promise to live up to the scout law, and one point of that law is "kind."

 

It's hard to imagine a point of the Scout Law that such a hazing procedure does not break! OK, I exaggerate but:

 

"A Scout is a friend to all and a brother to every other Scout."

 

Well, you don't spray your friends or your brothers with insect repellent, nor deliberately make bad memories for them.

 

"A Scout is a friend to animals."

 

A scout would never spray an animal in the face with insect repellent, would he (except perhaps an insect!). Then a fortiori he should not be spraying his brother scouts in the face with insect repellent.

 

FWIW I agree with Venividi(vici!).

[Twocubdad]

Agree that you need to let the troop leadership take it from here, but I would not be afraid to follow up.

 

If you were the SM and asking, my advice would be to take a hard line. My experience is this junk is easy to get started in a troop and really tough to stamp out. I would seriously consider some term of suspension -- even if it's just one campout -- simply to demonstrate the level of seriousness with which you take such behavior.

[ScoutNut]

As a Troop parent it is not your job to discipline these Scouts.

 

Bring the matter to the Scoutmaster's attention and let the Troop leadership handle it.

 

I would also keep an eye out for any reoccurring behavior of this sort from anyone on future campouts.

[TAHAWK]

The facts we are given include the fact that this scheme to commit battery on several children was foiled by this "person involved in Scouting."

 

I see no facts to indicate that this concerned parent is individually responsible for "discipline" or that Commissioned Scouters cannot handle it. (All "discipline" is said now, unhelpfully, to be the exclusive province of "adults.")

 

I do understand a level of concern that may not be totally satisfied by, "Let the SM handle it."

 

Imagine that the planned battery had actually occurred. Whose non-delegable duty would it have been, according to B.S.A., to report to the "local authorities"? "All persons involved in Scouting . . . [who] may not abdicate this reporting responsibility to any other person."