Useful Troop Progress Metric

[Eagle92]

Kudu,

 

Nah, character and leadership comes via the Patrol Method. Working together, doing what your suppose to, being a team player, leanring from failure and advserities, etc is character development. As for leadership development, sometimes being a good leader means being a good follower: supporting your PL and workign with the younger members of the patrol.

 

As for "Total hours sitting indoors, side by side with adults of character"? ROTFLMAO Glad I wasn't drinking coffee when I read this. SCOUTING IS OUTING!!!!

 

EDITED: I just remembered who said the adults of character comment and am now very depressed. Hopefully going home from work, seeing the 4y.o. with his "backpack" ready to go "camping" this weekend, seeing the 6y.o. doing the same thing, and of course the 8.yo who is already packed, has the menu planned for Fri and Sat. will cheer me up.

 

4 Days to Camp!(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[OldGreyEagle]

Actually, we may like to make fun of the comment "Total hours sitting indoors, side by side with adults of character

 

But consider, Many of us are familiar with Basementdwellers situation, and while I dont always admire the way he expresses himself, he is an adult of charactor who may be the best role model many youth who he serves has and he may be the reason for saving a good number of them.

 

Is the role model he provides something to laugh at? The group of youth he serves may not be able to do all the outdoorsy things scouts should do because of cost, but his prescence trying, even indoors, should not be discounted

 

Would society as a whole be better off with many more Basementdwellers taking the time and energy to do what he does?

 

I think so(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Eagledad]

I admire you Tampa for trying to use Troopmaster as a tool to gain insight in your programs progress, but I think it doesnt provide near enough data. Weve discussed in the forum that National acquired data thru the 80s that showed scouts who earned first class in one year was more likely to stay in the program several years. That data motivated National to start the FCFY program we have today. What the data didnt show was if the troops where scouts earned first class in one year were just better programs.

 

I found that scouters with limited experience tended to judge their program success by the number of new scouts and ranks. The more experience scouters tended to look less at direct numbers and more about program quality. Both are valuable trends to follow, but there are too many independent variables that can affect each unit.

 

Our troop averaged between 20 to 30 new scouts a year the ten years I was there, which sounds really great on paper. But we were also loosing more than 50% of those new scouts in their first six months the first few years of our program. It was interesting that council was impressed with our growing numbers because as long as your new scout numbers are higher than the out going scout numbers, you look good on paper.

 

However, we saw the huge loss of new scouts as a big problem and worked to improve the overall program. The irony is we wanted to stay a small boy run troop. By fixing our short comings we lost fewer scouts, but we also became the bigger troop that we didnt want. Watch out what you wish for, you may get more than you expect.

 

Barry

 

[Tampa Turtle]

EagleDad,

 

We had similar experience. I think it is "reducing churn". I see in my church. New people in, other people out. You may have a problem but as long as incoming outnumbers outgoing you think you are a success. Start to improve your situation (say delivering a more exciting boy led outdoor program) and cut down departures and you start to swell. That is our experience.

 

Also I am aware there is always a danger of false causality (is that correct?)--finding weak or irrelevant correlations. That is why I think FCFY may have missed the point.

 

I think we have about two years of pre-change data and two years of post change data. Perhaps I will look at:

 

-Retention rates of each year's class.

-#Camping vs Camping Offered

-Miles Hiked

-Nights camping vs advancement time (Are some boys paper advancement?)

-Summer Camp vs retention/advancement.

 

Just wondering of I can scope out some trends to show the committee/SM.

[Deaf Scouter]

FYI...*smiles

Unit Self Assessment forms links:

 

Troop/Team" http://scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33618-27.pdf

 

Pack: http://scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33618-25.pdf

 

Commisssioners (but a helpful read to all): http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Commissioners/newsletter/bsa_news/02_2012_assessments.aspx

 

(Thanks Gents and Ladies.. it was getting to me a bit but thankfully I've had experience on forums where it was way harsher than here. My LOVE of Scouting is just a TAD to strong to allow me to be discouraged by one... *smiles while whistling)

[Eagledad]

Well I agree with Kudu that program is the number one cause of success, at least it is for us. Let me restate that, outdoor advemture and camping is the key to our program. I also think the boy run part or our program contributed a lot to our success. But one may be a result of the other.

 

So if you can compare advancement to outdoors program, that would be some useful data. But, it could be hard to see because a fun outdoor adventure program will lead to scouts participating in more troop activities, includeing advancement.

 

Keep up the good work gathering data, we all can benefit from what you learn.

 

Barry

[Tampa Turtle]

In a week or two I'll get back to you...Thanks!

[Deaf Scouter]

FCFY program please????

 

 

[Eagle92]

Deaf,

 

If you are asking what FCFY means, it = First Class in the First Year. A program that national started in 1989 which tries to get scouts to FC rank within 12 months of joining.

 

Me personally I wouldn't use thenumber of Scouts who get FC within a year as a metric. Is it possible with scouts "mastering the skills" as the old handbooks use to say, or as the current Guide to Advancmwent ( GtA or G2A) being able to do the skills represented by the badge worn? Absolutely. BUT you need to have a real go getter, have a very active program, etc etc.

[Basementdweller]

I missed Eagle92 comment. I am surprised to say the least.......

 

Thx OGE.....

 

Ya know what I did with my tax return?????

 

I bought 4 cub and boys scout shirts and patches.....I paid for 3 day camp registrations and 2 webelos camp registration....... Why, because our DE and camping committee said NO.

 

 

So what did you do with yours??????

 

 

 

As I have been told by scouts and scouters at a scouting event "Your scouts will be serving my scouts meals when they become adults"

 

(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[Eagle92]

In regards to the sitting inside comment, I stand by what I say. Yes we as leaders do spend time indoors mentoring and working with them, and that is part of the process. BUT we also look for every opportunity to take them outside. Even Basement is trying to send kids into the outdoors as evidenced by sending kids to camp.

 

Let's face it the kids wants the outdoors. That's where they learn and grow best.

[Eagle92]

Base,

 

The folks who made these comments "Your scouts will be serving my scouts meals when they become adults" are not scouts and scout leaders but idiots, to put it VERY mildly. The actual choice of words I would use are not appropriate for a scouting forum.

 

Also a Big THANK YOU for taking care of your scouts.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

[Deaf Scouter]

Thanks Eagle92. Knew about the first three ranks done in the first year HELPS on retention but didn't know it was labeled FCFY... *laughing Definitely need outings for that one.

 

BasementDweller.. They said WHAT?? Want me to come over there and slap upside the head at their negative/belittling talk. That is colonization that we got rid of AGES ago with our constitution. Its also a way to make themselves feel better.... *shaking head at the nerve of some unmentionables.. *shudders

 

As for what you did for your scouts.. GREAT job BasementDweller.

 

I'm feeling very discourage tonight yet smiling. Seems that with my ASM out of town in Mexico, the state test tomorrow and Spring break last week only one dad showed and none of my 4 scouts. Dad was hoping the ex would bring the son even if its not his visitation night. (they definitely have the weirdest visitation schedule I've ever heard of.) We have a campout this coming weekend with no numbers yet. So much for ScOUTING... *sighs

[Basementdweller]

It happened at summer camp nearly a year ago now.....Scouts said it a couple of times, SM and ASM over heard and did not intervene, took a complaint to the CD to get an apology.

 

 

Ya, still mad about it....

 

 

At this years camp meeting he went over ethnic intimidation and said if it happens again this year the scout and/or troop will be sent home if it repeats....I hope this was not because of the incident with our troop, because while hurtful it wasn't that serious.

 

Our scout camp requires shirts for access to the dining hall....The CD is not flexible in this regard...so the boys who signed up for camp had to have shirts.....Besides, there is nothing like seeing their face light up when they put the shirt on for the first time.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[Tampa Turtle]

Basement,

 

That (comment)is pretty shocking and makes me really wonder about some folks. Yes I cannot use the language appropriate for that comment here. Thanks for your work. I know you have it tougher than a lot of us; but I think the difference you are making has the potential to be greater.

 

I am at a pretty affluent Troop and some of the comments I have heard from parents and scouts are pretty shocking. I stomp on it when I hear it but it is discouraging. A lot of elitism, classicism, and racism. My older son has a few disabilities and gets a lot of "buffalo chips" about it. Kind, indeed.

 

I agree that the most important metric would be the growth of character and what is in the human heart but it is so hard to measure that. I regret the size of the Troop at times like that...I only can know so many boys.