No more "Parents of" Charter Orgs

[Engineer61]

But in the Oregon Case, the CO (LDS) did end up paying out, right? ... Agreed to by settlement, but the CO paid out as well as the BSA...the CO was a named Defendant.

 

 

[ZScout5]

Ok. I had someone in my council do some digging and it looks like Horizon's council is going a step further than what BSA National requires. Faith based orgs apparently have more advancement and camping, oversight, and continuity. (They probably also have more insurance too) New units are strongly advised to have a faith based CO.

Although the Orange County Council makes it sound like a National demand to change, it is actually that council that wants the change. The reason why is unknown.

[Beavah]

But in the Oregon Case, the CO (LDS) did end up paying out, right? ... Agreed to by settlement, but the CO paid out as well as the BSA...the CO was a named Defendant.

 

As I mentioned, da CO will always be named as a defendant.

 

For several of the cases that involve LDS units and officials, yeh have to remember that there is a lot of overlap between their church activities and scouting. BSA insurance only covers Scouting liability, eh? The church may still have exposure because of non-scouting youth program trips led by the same adults, and for the actions of their leaders who are engaged in church ministry involvin' the boys and families.

 

B

 

[Horizon]

All:

 

Thanks for the responses and comments. I am going to follow-up with friends at the Council level, possibly this weekend at Camporee. If I hear anything interesting, I will happily share it.

 

 

[hbscouting]

I know it is late to log on to this discussion but I need some advice. I am the CR for a Parents of Troop in Orange County Council. The initial email from the OCC Office statement was misleading. Only after another large Parents of CR and myself asked repeatedly for the National document citing the policy change, did the OCC come out and state it was an OCC policy, not a National policy. Instead of sending the "clarification" or retraction to all recipients of the original email, it was buried at the bottom of the weekly (or so) mass email called Scoutweek. By the way, it was the last item with the first a notice for all upcoming merit badge days, summer camp availability at Lost Valley, programs at other Council owned properties, etc. Many CRs missed it (or may not be on that distribution list).

 

A bit of background on my troop. We originally were chartered to one of our founders' business (it had 3 employees, all members of the family). When the owners closed the business and moved out of state, at the urging of our DE, we changed to a parents of unit. We have been a parents of for 6 years and the troop is 26 years old. We have over 60 Scouts and have over 120 Eagles in the history of our troop. We have solid by-laws, fully trained leaders, monthly treasurer reports, all checks and financial statements reviewed/approved by 2 non-related people as well as an annual audit. In other words, we abide by the letter and intent of the rules and the laws. Oh, did I mention, we have one of the district's 3 YPT trainers on our committee.

 

The CR from another large Parents of troop in our district has the same kind of organization. We asked for a meeting with the Council Board and were told that the Board did not take comments from the floor but would read a letter if we submitted it. In the meanwhile, our DE and 2 Field Directors spoke with us but just provided the party line (obviously did not have any power). We were "granted" a meeting with a few Board members. Unfortunately, the meeting was for a wide variety of Parents of units who had nothing in common with the other large troop and myself. Most were small packs or troops who had high turn-over/little continuity as the boys and parents moved on. Our two troops have multiple generations of leaders (our leaders' sons range in age from 35 down to future members) and a proven succession plan. Our alumni Eagles mentor our Scouts and our alumni leaders remain active to mentor the adults.

 

The meeting did not address our concerns. We did not feel that they even listened to our concerns. One of our major concerns is our equipment. The other troop has an estimated $40K in equipment and we have about $30K. If we decide on a charter partner and after a year it does not work out to our mutual satisfaction, according the OCC (and confirmed by National's General Counsel) the equipment and all funds would remain with the charter organization. Our DE and one of the Field Directors suggested skirting the ruling by National by "gifting" the assets to a parent or myself. This seems unethical and in violation of the first point of the Scout Law. With regards to the equipment issue, the Board members said that it would never happen, but according to other posters (and my gut), it could and has happened. My concern was dismissed as irrelevant by the Board members.

 

I am having a really hard time with this discrimination! Just as all faith based units are different, all parents of units are different. My troop has a very successful program in place (always one of the top units in Camporee, volunteer adults, volunteer youth, FOS donations, District Award of Merit, Silver Beavers, etc.). The other troop in my district is comparable.

On the other hand, in the last 5 years, 3 troop registered to churches (2 Baptist) have folded -- with no help to turn-around the program. In fact, the churches said it was a Boy Scout issue, not theirs.

 

Okay, so I rambled, but ... Does anyone have advice on an appeals process? The Board members (the meeting was led by the Vice Chairman, Membership Impact, Mark Wille and also Dr. John Hovanesian) are completely non-responsive. The other CR and I are completely disenchanted and discouraged after devoting so many years, heart, and energy to the program.

 

Why mess with success?

 

Thanks in advance.

[ScoutNut]

>>"We asked for a meeting with the Council Board and were told that the Board did not take comments from the floor but would read a letter if we submitted it. In the meanwhile, our DE and 2 Field Directors spoke with us but just provided the party line (obviously did not have any power). We were "granted" a meeting with a few Board members.......The meeting did not address our concerns. We did not feel that they even listened to our concerns."

[moosetracker]

I agree with ScoutNut.. That would be the first course of action.

 

If that does not work out.. I suggest looking for a CO that would accept writing up some sort of agreement, that what you come in with could leave with the troop if you so choose.. What equipment gets replaced over the years though would then belong to the CO.. Spend down you cash on equipment or outings, and then start with the new CO..

 

ScoutNut.. I missed the story about Chicago & the COR's do you have a link to the story, or can you summerize it?(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[Oak Tree]

Could you just leave all of the equipment as owned by the "Friends of" organization? Nothing unethical there.

[JMHawkins]

You do not need to give a new CO the equipment you already own. That $30k and $40k respectively of stuff is owned by the existing "Parents of..." organizations. If the Troop is rechartered to some other organization, the "Parents of..." can keep the equipment and allow the Troop to use it. Not really any different than the troop renting stuff from REI occasionally. New stuff donated to the Troop would belong to the new CO, but there's nothing ethically dubious about the old CO keeping the existing equipment.

 

But frankly, I'd just tell your DE you won't be rechartering and will be switching the unit over to BPSA or some other alternative since the council apparently no longer wishes to associate with your organization. Be blunt and cold. Let him know the alternatives are that you recharter as your existing CO, or you don't recharter with BSA. There are alternatives. BSA is just one provider, and your Council needs to realize that. You are their customer. If they don't want your business, you will out of necessity take it elsewhere.

 

But also getting the CORs together as ScoutNut suggested would be a great thing to do. Pursue that in parallel.

[NJCubScouter]

On the equipment issue, I think OakTree asks the right question. The equipment is owned by your "parents of" organization. Hopefully that organization is either a corporation or some kind of other entity established in accordance with the laws of your state. The entity presumably continues to exist under state law, even if the BSA no longer permits it to be the CO of a troop. (Although I would consult with an attorney in your state about whether any documents need to be amended because the "purpose" of the entity is changing; and nothing in this post constitutes legal advice, I am just an anonymous person on the Internet.) Assuming all of this is correct, the entity continues to own the equipment and can LEND it to the unit. There is no reason why the entity should just give away its property. The idea of a written agreement with the new CO (if any) sounds good. (And if you really want to button things up legally, you should consult with an attorney (again) to see if anything needs to be filed with any government agencies to protect the entity's rights in the equipment.)

 

It is a shame that the BSA (or just some councils) is making people go through all this, apparently based on issues that have arisen with some, but not all, units chartered to "friends of" or "parents of" entities.

[BadenP]

 

I have to agree with most of the advice already given to you. As far as getting all or even a group of COR's together over this issue would be a Herculean task, why, because most COR's do not even know they are COR's and have never taken COR training to become aware of what their duties truly are. Most of them are just names on paper and that is why so many councils can run amok without worrying about reprisals from the CO's. Unless you know all or most of the other unit leaders feel the same way as you on this issue and are willing to commit their COR's to join in there really isn't much you can do alone. Whomever you choose as your new CO make sure they understand their responsibilities,and are willing to fufill them,and they go to CO training.

 

On the flip side an active and involved CO may also call into question some of the things you are doing in the troop,a two edged sword. Whoever becomes your new COR really should be an active member of the CO's organization, even though it is not required it will be a HUGE benefit to the smooth running of your troop and maintaining a good relationship/tie in with the CO. In units with CO's who are mainly nothing more than a name on paper and have no buy in to the unit is when the problems start. Pick a solid, established organization for your next CO.

[Beavah]

Interestin'.

 

This might be one of the rare cases where yeh want to consider incorporating, eh? Establish yourself as a legitimate, incorporated Chartered Organization. Get a friendly attorney to help yeh through the process in your state and handle the 501©(3) application. That will take some effort and cost some money, and take some extra effort each year, but it might be the way to go in your case.

 

As another anonymous person on the internet who can't give legal advice, I agree completely with NJCubScouter with respect to how to handle your current equipment if yeh elect to charter with another entity.

 

Beavah