Den/Patrol by Interest

[DLChris71]

Something that as a new Den Leader and a former scout that has always bothered me is that most of the time it seems the kids get grouped together by some arbitrary category, and merged in with a leader (den leader or PL or Patrol) that they may not exactly jibe with. You know such as age, neighborhood, school. It's not until a certain point in some boy scout troops that you even branch off into something like a venture patrol. But is that enough variety.

 

In my pack for example we have den leaders that are just there for den meeting night. Sure they put effort into the den meeting (mileage may vary) but if it's outside of the realm of the den meeting resource book then it won't happen. Then there are other den leaders that are interested in pursuing a certain award or awards. Some DLs don't care about uniforms, others want the scouts in uniform socks to cap. Yet dens are arranged (besides the important grade/age factor) by school assignment in our pack.

 

In a patrol scouts are arbitrarily assigned to a patrol by SPL/PLC (or possibly a rascally SM) initially. The issue I have there is that it takes an individual kid a lot of gumption to break ranks and request a new patrol.

 

What if there was some way, maybe at the first meeting of the scout year (for cub scouts after fall roundup I guess or before/after troop elections for a PL) that the leader of each den or the PL of a patrol were able to come out and state what kind of group they wanted to lead.

 

Not some baloney shooting session but set out goals and standards they wanted to achieve for their group of scouts.

 

Say one DL wanted to pursue mainly service projects on weekends in addition to ranking or another just wanted to do den meetings and pack activities.

 

Or a PL that wanted his patrol to spend the next 6 months pursuing the Hornaday awards vs. a PL that wanted to organize a HA trip for the troop.

 

Then the scouts (and parents in the case of Cubs) would have some choice in which group they wanted to get into.

 

The purpose then is to instead of arbitrarily assigning scouts to some group would be to get them invested and excited as much as possible to start out with, instead of the group trying to over come the inertia of trying to form a new group or progressing with new scouts and trying to get the cat to bark.

[Scoutfish]

With Cub Scouts, scouts first level of division should e age/grade.

 

THis is of course, to give an age appropriate level of learning and adventure to them. It really only doesn't work when you have a scout who is pretty mature or immature for his age.

 

After that, it's just adults not seeing te better picture.

 

AS far as seperating dens based on what school you go to, what neighborhood you live in or even what color hair you have ...that needs to be tossed out and done away with. Whoever decided this is doing a huge disservice to the program and boys.

 

The only percieved benefit would be on paper.

 

At opne time, we had 3 seperate Tiger dens. We called then Tiger Den 3 , Tiger Den 8 and Tiger Den 5.

 

Parents and/or the Tiger cub chose which den they wanted to be in. They did this based on which leader they liked, wether their son had a friend in that den and what that den did - because like you say, not every den of the same rank will do the exact same thing .

 

Some boys started out in one den, but later went to another.

 

Of course, all our den leaders worked together on biger things like the required go see it oppertunities at fire depts and seeing Officer Friendly ( do they still call him that? )

 

SO, other than mixing ages/grades up - like 4th grade (first year) Webelos with 2nd grade Wolves - you can mix the boys up however you want.

 

Exception being a scout who has passed or failed a grade. Then you have to consider wether to put him in his age group or mental age group. Okay, mental age is not quite the right word, but based on his learning ability. Could be the boy is in a maturaty level of the grade he is in, or he might be maturer than that, but just not quite a book smart. That make sense?

 

Anyways, you do what you need to do to make the boys have fun and stay interested. I tell my leaders that if we do not keep the boys interests and fun as our main goal, we might as well close up shop!

 

As far as Boy Scouts, yeah...more complicated. Most patrols groupings start out based on a new group of scouts starting each year. You sorta need to keep the green guys in the same patrol and not mixed with the sr scouts as they have different mentalities, different maturaties, different things they need to work on as far as progressing in rank.

 

But if you have a new class of at least 15 - 18 scouts a year, then you do have the awesome ability bto make 3 brand new patrols. Boys could change from one patrol to the next based on goals, progress and plans.

 

Of course, at the same time, having s mix of different scouts at different levels of progress ain;t so bad either. THis is where they learn alot of stuff.

 

EXAMPLE: If my son is a super achiever, and yours is not. This is where your son will learn to start stepping it up and learning to priortize. Likewise, my son will learn to slow down and also to start helping out his peers. THis is where they learn to work together as a team and help each other out for the greater benefit of all. Granted, my sons advancement would not be slowed down by your son's advancement, but they would learn about helping each other out, being a team, camraderie and even a bit about citizenship.

 

Of course, there is another way to mix up and change patrols: Some boys drop out for one rteason or another: Parents move, sports, girls trap them with their evil syren songs, jobs, or the age or Eagle out.

 

As the number of boys in a patrol diminishes, you sometimes have to mix 2 patrols to make one.

 

But from my standpoint, the bigger importnace is on the cub scout level. You lose these boys, they may form a negative opinion about Boy Scouts without having a clue about how different it can be. ADults are usually ( but not always) the ones that ruin cub scouting for the boys.

 

Again, if we aren't making it fun for the boys, we might as well shut the doors. In my own personal opinion...I'd rather the boy have fun before all else. If they have fun, they stick arouind. If they have fun, they participate more. If they have fun, they stick with it and learn alot of stuff even if they don't realize it.

 

And fun is subjective. One scout loves doing service projects, the next one only likes the camping, the next likes wearing his uniform everywhere he can.

 

I feel that you already know everything I just said..Now it's time to start pushing the rest of the leadership and committee here and there. Just don't push too much too soon.

 

My pack had a case of : "But this is how we have always done it!" syndrome. I hate being traditional only for the sake of tradition. If there isn't a reason or meaning behind the tradition, then lets change it up and do something better. If tere is a real reason behind the tradition, we can still do it, but lets find a better cooler way to do it.

 

It took some time and work, but our pack rocks now!

 

 

GOOD LUCK!!!

 

[Scoutfish]

WOw! Didn't mean to write a book!

 

[Eagledad]

I think we agree with you DL, but it's a matter of resources. Most packs don't have enough adults to proved choices of programs to the boys. Most feel lucky to find enough adults to provide a basic program.

 

The BSA looses more than 50 percent of Webelos when they cross over to the troops. The number one cause for those loses is adult leader burnout, which results in a boring Webelos program. If we can get more adults interested in scouting to provide a refreshed program, we would change those numbers a lot.

 

I say go for it DL and make it work. You have nothing to loose.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

[SeattlePioneer]

Well, Cub Scout Dens are organized by grade level. The skeleton of the program is provided by the requirements and electives of the den achievements and electives. So those elements of the program are pretty much fixed.

 

Too often, I see packs organizing large dens of boys that may have between 8-20 boys. That's too large, and presents opportunities to give boys more choices by increasing the number of dens.

 

Last summer I had twelve boys and their adult partners in my Tiger Twilight camp held in conjunction with Cub Scout Daycamp.

 

About the first thing I did was to give boys the opportunity to choose which of two dens they wanted to join. I was lucky --- six wanted to join one den and six the other.

 

As the Tiger Twilight Camp Director, I had the program planned out, but each of the two dens rotated parents so that several had the opportunity to be the Den Leader for their den.

 

Dens shared a common program, but each made their own den flag, had their own den name ("Bengal Tigers" "Saber Tooth Tigers") had their own den cheer and rotated between doing common activities but at different time for each den.

 

Boys that age mostly want (1) to be with their buddies (2) to have fun and exciting things to do. Tiger Cubs are famous for being enthusiastic about doing pretty much ANYTHING --- for about 5-10 minutes.

 

So I don't see a choice of activities to conform to the interest of boys being critical for young boys. Taking advantage of the skills and interests of adults is more important.

 

 

If you have a large group of Tiger Cubs, Wolves or Bears, my bias would be to have one adult in charge of organizing activities for each of those dens --- being the Den Leader in Chief.

 

That Den Leader in Chief should take advantage of the skills offered by adults when possible to organize the activities for each meeting and outing. Then each group of 4-6 boys should have an adult den leader who will carry out the activities planned for the meeting or activity.

 

That gives boys and adults a small group they can pal around with, plus the advantage of a common program organized by the most motivated leader.

 

 

That's the theory I aim for, anyway.

 

 

[qwazse]

At the crew level, it is possible to have this kind of variety in the program (partly because the youth are more mobile and able to drive to the programs that interest them).

 

But I still find youth gravitating to the group that has the most friends from school. As long as they're with their friends, they'll make the program happen.

[Cito]

One of my goals is to get to at least two dens per grade level just to have them meet different nights. We lose too many kids just based on schedule conflicts that could be fixed with two options.

[Basementdweller]

Slow down there Chris.....Your in Cub Scouting right????

 

In Cub scouting the most important thing is the boys are with their friends. It improves retention and the boys enjoy coming to the meetings even if it is for some lame craft.

 

What you don't want to happen is all the Jocks in one den and everyone else in the other. Or the kids that have active parents and show up to everything vs the kids who are not so lucky. What will happen is the weaker den will die.

 

When you have jocks in both dens you can have some really fantastic kick ball games or other inter den competitions.

[DLChris71]

In our pack my oldest was first assigned to a den with his class mates from school, but at the last second was switched to another den with kids from mostly another school in our area. So the thing is this. My son wanted to pursue things like the CS World Conservation Badge, Leave No Trace, Emergency Preparedness, Cub Scout Outdoor Activity, etc. But his den leader, who is a great lady, really only has time for the basic program. So no den projects. Hopefully they will be doing Whittlin Chip the next few weeks. But for him it's been slightly frustrating.

 

Now he can earn Emergency Preparedness, LNT, and Outdoor Activity through his family but I think it's something he'd like to have earned with his den.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello DLChris71,

 

As Basement suggested, usually an important thing is for boys to be with their buddies. That he got put in with another den is unfortunate.

 

But Cub Scouting achievements are supposed to be done primarily as family activities. So I would plan time with your son to do the activities he is interested in and you are interested in.

 

Being a Den Leader is a pretty big burden. Perhaps you can pick an activity or two your son is interested in and discuss presenting those activities for the den to give the Den Leader a break from organizing activities.

 

 

[Basementdweller]

So how does the scout know about the awards????

[Venividi]

 

 

>But his den leader, who is a great lady, really only has time for the basic program. So no den projects. Hopefully they will be doing Whittlin Chip the next few weeks. But for him it's been slightly frustrating.

 

DLChris,

As a new DL, you understand more than most parents the need for parents to help out with den meetings/projects, etc. Perhaps you could encourage and/or work with your son's den leader to put together a schedule for the next year that assigns responisbility for projects and meetings to parents of den meetings on a rotational basis.

 

Accomplishes 3 things:

Scouts get more of the activities that they want.

Den Leader gets the help needed for a quality den program.

Parents become contributing participants in den and pack activities.