Swim test requirements (Form 20-290)

[drmbear]

I know that at the National Capital Area council Scout Camp Goshen they do not have a pool, but they have multiple camps and swim areas on the lake all the way around it.

 

When I was a kid doing the mile swim, the first half mile was swimming up river on the James River, and that was a killer. Doing Lifesaving and Scout Lifeguard on that river was crazy with the current. Going down to lift something heavy and then getting it back to the starting point I still remember as an incredibly difficult thing.

 

I was one of those kids that if I was completely motionless, I sank like a rock. Even now, though I have quite a lot more padding, if I stay very long without moving I start to sink.

[5yearscouter]

I've seen boys pass who were moving their arms very slowly and kicking slightly to stay floating, because as soon as they stopped moving they were rocks. They weren't expending much energy which is the idea of floating, to save energy so you can stay out there on the water longer and not get tired out.

[Eagle732]

"The swim classification test done at a unit level should be conducted by one of the following council- approved resource people: Aquatics Instructor, BSA; Aquatics Cub Supervisor; BSA Lifeguard; BSA Swimming & Water Rescue; or other lifeguard, swimming instructor, etc."

 

I think I fall under the "etc" group of council-approved resource people. I still have my Lifesaving MB card that council approved over 40 years ago:)

 

Seriously, do units do their own swim testing?

 

[mellenberger65]

We do some "between camp" swim tests before aquatic trips like canoeing or sailing for boys that did not go to camp the previous summer. We noamally make arangements to go to the Y and use there facilities and then one of our leaders is a certified for swift water rescue rescue with the fire department which covers the "BSA Swimming and Water Rescue" requirements (and then some).

 

I agree with the previous post that suggested that someone in the troop become certified. It would be a good idea for every troop to someone certified in every area that certificaation is required. (Or at least team up with a neighboring troop and cover all between the two troops). Yea, I know... wishful thinking.

[Eagle92]

Quick question, how old are the lifeguards on the waterfront? Also are there age restriction on BSA Lifeguard classes?

 

My old camp has a manmade lake that is spring fed. This was evident when the the dam broke, the waterline was uberlow, and you could see part of the bulldozer that got left in the lake.

 

Anyway it has a great waterfront and was where I learned to swim, did mile swim, and earned BSA Lifeguard. A lot of good memories. Anyway I go to the camp's facebook page and see pics of the new pool. I'm thinking why did they waste the money building the pool when you have the lake, and I asked one of my friends still in the area, and on staff. I was told that OSHA does not allow under 16 yos to work on bodies of water that you cannot see the bottom of fit. I thought it was a joke, but it's real.

 

From this https://www.osha.gov/pls/epub/wageindex.download?p_file=F9419/Fact%20Sheet%2060.pdf

 

Youth under 16 years of age may not be employed as lifeguards at natural environment facilities such as rivers, steams, lakes, ponds, quarries, reservoirs, wharfs, piers, or ocean-side beaches.

 

So there goes some youth staff. And since you cannot have under 16 on the waterfront lifeguarding, you can not teach BSA Lifeguard to under 16 yos on the waterfront since part of the BSA Lifeguard course, at least when I went through it, had you working as a lifeguard as a practicum.

 

If your camp has a lake, AWESOME ( and yep I'm shouting)! But I see that going away.

 

[mellenberger65]

It will be a sad day when there are no lakes at camp. That was always a big draw for me.

[Eagle92]

2 comments.

 

 

1) My council has modified the form above. The person conducting the Swim Test MUST attach a copy of their certification, or the form is invalid.

 

2) Swimming in lakes is what I fear will be gone.

 

An aside: Read the funniest thing. In the state of NJ, a certified Lifeguard Instructor is NOT considered a lifeguard under the law b/c it is primarily a 'teaching" position.

 

Luckily NJ recognized BSA Lifeguard. I know of some places that won't.

[Eagle732]

So why is it that a SM who is trusted with taking boys on swimming and boating trips and has the capability of signing off on rank swimming requirements not capable of judging whether a scout can pass a swimming test? Since this swimmer test is the same as the 1st Class requirement do I now need a certified person signing off the requirement?

 

And before you all start judging me I take the swimming test requirements very seriously. When we test before our annual canoe trip I'm always tougher than the staff at our council camp's pool is. We test in a public pool which opens a few hours early for us with lifeguards on duty. From my understanding of the requirements these lifeguards would be authorized to certify that scouts have met the swimmer requirement even though they have no responsibility for the boys well being after they leave the pool.

 

 

[Eagle92]

'732,

 

Good question. The following list is POSSIBLE, list of reasons.

 

1) SM or other person conducting the test is under pressure to have the scout pass the test and signs it off. Only when the scout takes Swimming MB at camp afew weeks after taking the test with the unit, he cannot pass the swim test,let alone do requirements for the MB ( told that happened a lot and why my council wants a copy of the cert attached to their form AND the AD has the right to reject the form).

 

2) SM or other person conducting the test cannot recognize a "strong manner" and thinks the person who barely makes it has passed when someone who is trained can tell the person is on the verge of drowning.

 

3) Lawsuits have arisen and national wants certified folks doing these tests for legal reasons.

 

I have mixed emotions on this and some of the MBs now. Trust me I know how it important it is to have someone properly trained and with expereince to do these MBs, but having a certification does not mean the person is capable of doing it. Unfortunately I have seen someone get certified as a lifeguard who I would NOT trust to save my life. Heck in some instances I'd rather have someone I FAILED Lifesaving MB do the rescue, or someone who failed BSA Lifeguard, than that certified "lifeguard."

 

An aside: scout that I failed couldn't do one exercise, getting the person out of the water. Had a long conversation with him and SM on the matter,and told them to work with a local MBC to get that one skill down pact. And I did tell him I wuld trust him with my life b/c out of all the students he was the best one with all the other skills. He couldn't help that he was a dwarf.

[Engineer61]

Based on my experience with watching my Scout take this test...it's largely a rubber stamp anyway.

 

SWIMMERS TEST:

Requirement: Jump feetfirst into water over the head in depth, level off, and begin swimming.

 

Observation: Stepped off side feetfirst about 2 feet, frantically thrashed back to side of pool, then pushed off and started swimming.

 

=====

 

Requirement: Swim 75 yards in a strong manner using one or more of the following strokes: sidestroke, breaststroke, trudgen, or crawl; then swim 25 yards using an easy resting backstroke.

 

Observation: Swam 25 yards breaststroke strongly, floundered 50 yards using various unrecognizable strokes. Had to stop and bounce off of the bottom several times.

 

=====

 

Requirement: The 100 yards must be swum continuously and include at least one sharp turn.

 

Observation: Stopped and bounced off bottom several times, stopped at side of pool twice, did no turn, let alone a sharp one.

 

=====

 

Requirement: After completing the swim, rest by floating.

 

Observation: Did not perform.

 

=====

 

Grade: PASSED. By Certified Lifeguard at YMCA.

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Observation:

 

 

The lawyers run the world.

 

And they are running it into the ground.

 

 

 

[Engineer61]

"The lawyers run the world."

"And they are running it into the ground. "

 

Hmmm...depending on the setting...I hear the same about doctors, teachers, politicians, PAC's, big business, small business, oil companies, lumber companies, military dictators ...

 

Humanity would be a great thing, if it wasn't for all those people.

[Gunny2862]

Engineer 61, if your observations were accurate (and I have no reason to believe they weren't) then sorry your YMCA lifeguard didn't understand the value of a standard or of upholding it.

 

At the summer camp our troop attends he'd certainly not be a blue swimmer(swimmer), probably wouldn't make it into the intermediate area, and would most likely be offered the beginning swimmer class instead of one of his pre-selected MB's unless he had a free time slot to use instead.

[Gunny2862]

We do outside of Camp Swim tests. Especially if we are going to Canoe or Swim and they haven't been classified at Camp yet.

 

Having been a Life Guard Instructor, Life guard, Scuba Diver(Advanced Open, Open, Deep, and Rescue certs) and spouse of a WSSI, if you pass me you are good to go at camp.

 

However even so, if you go to camp where we have gone every single person who arrives and is staying the week, takes a swim test, Adult and Youth Staff, Commissioners, all Campers and Camping Adults. (Okay, possible exception, I don't think they made the paid cooks take the test unless they went to the pool).(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

[perdidochas]

For me, the hardest part of that swim test would be the resting backstroke. The resting backstroke is far from restful for me. If I'm doing a resting stroke, it's a side stroke.