Quartermaster

[sailingpj]

"Ask someone on the street about the 100 year old Eagle Scout Award and they most likely will not know exactly what is needed to earn it, but will know it take a certain something big to get it done."

 

Ask someone on the street about the 100 year old Sea Scout Quartermaster award that is harder than Eagle, and you will get an even blanker stare than Venturing Silver. Once you explain it the person always says something to the effect of "So its like Eagle."

 

Here is the thing about Sea Scout advancement. By the time you reach Able, our second highest rank, you have learned most of the skills. Except for a couple things, such as getting lifeguard certified, the requirements are all about teaching a crew all the skills. Take Marlinespike for an example:

"6. Marlinspike Seamanship

a. Teach the Apprentice, Ordinary, and Able marlinspike seamanship requirements to a crew.

b. Make an eye splice in double-braided line."

 

For apprentice there are 8 knots.

 

For Ordinary there are another 7 knots, and you have to "Name the various materials used to manufacture rope, the advantages and disadvantages of each, and the characteristics of laid and braided rope. Discuss the meaning of lay, thread, strand, and hawser. Explain how rope is sized and measured. Demonstrate your ability to secure a line to pilings, bitts, cleats, and rings, and to coil, flake, and flemish a line. Demonstrate how to cut and heat-seal a synthetic line and whip the end of plain-laid line using waxed cord or similar material.

 

For Able you have to complete a back splice, eye splice, short splice, long splice, and a palm-and-needle whipping. Sew a flat seam, round seam, and grommet eye in canvas or sail material. Describe how each is used in construction of and the care of sails. Describe the parts of a block and explain how blocks are sized. Describe the following types of tackle: luff, gun, double purchase, single whip, and runner. With the help of another shipmate, reeve a double purchase tackle.

 

So for Quartermaster you have to know all of those things well enough to teach them to a crew. Not one person, a crew. Marlinespike is actually one of the easier requirements to do. Then there is boat handling, navigation, rules of the road, and much more.

 

Many of your Eagle requirements are requirements for Able. Lifesaving for one, and First Aide for another, though we are required to get CPR certified and take the Red Cross Standard First Aide course.

 

Having just gone and skimmed through the Eagle requirements for the first time I say that Eagle is actually easier than Able. You might be able to make a case for it being on level with Able, but you will have difficulty convincing me.

 

I hope I did not offend anyone, but I am tired of people lessening Quartermaster by making it sound equivalent to things that are less than it. I also don't mean to put down Eagle. It is definitely an accomplishment, but Quartermaster is just, in my mind at least, a bigger accomplishment. While you all are complaining about people watering down the Boy Scout advancement process, in the most recent requirement change they shifted several requirements down a rank, and added more to the top.

 

Here is the link to the current Quartermaster requirements. There are links along the bottom of the page to the other ranks as well.

http://seascout.org/about/program/advancement/quartermaster.html

[Scouter.]

No offense taken here and I'm an eagle.

 

Reading your posting made me realize what a benefit the Quartermaster Award would have been to me.

 

I once had a job as a deckhand on a towboat and am amazed at the requirements I "fulfilled" working that job. (I actually picked up one of the round embroidered QM rank patches and had to research it. I did find it... But not fast.

 

I don't know many people that can splice a rope (this forum excepted)..,let alone doing an eye splice on a 2 inch rope...and not knowing what a "fid" was..I sure figured out I needed one and got something to do the job. I'm not sure lassoing a timber head is in there...but my guess is that it is.

 

Seeing as this is the 100th anniversary of Sea Scouting..please do continue to enlighten and educate those of us that do not know that much about that lessor known area of scouting.

[CHLees3rd]

Sailing,

 

No offense here either and I too am an Eagle Scout.

 

I have met hundreds of Eagle Scouts over the years; however, I have only met one Quartermaster Sea Scout. And he earned it long before I was born!

 

I wished I had known about it when I was younger. I would have loved a chance at earning it.

 

During the past year, I have heard about a half dozen Eagle Scouts and their parents in my area say that there is not much left for the Eagle to do in Scouting since they've made Eagle. I pointed out the Quartermaster Award and told them that their Eagle Scouts had to age 21 to earn it. No one has risen to the challenge. I've also mentioned the Ranger Award and Venturing Silver Award. Again, they do nothing.

 

Like I said in the other thread, most everyday people only know Eagle Scout. They are not aware of the other awards which is too bad. Everyone seems brainwashed that Eagle is the pinnacle of all Scouting which we know that it is not. It would be nice if National put as much effort to let the general public know about Sea Scouting and Venturing as it has been doing with the Summit. Perhaps everyday people would appreciate more the accomplishments of Quartermaster and Venturing Silver.

 

Chazz Lees(This message has been edited by CHLEes3rd)

[sailingpj]

There are some people working to publicize Sea Scouts right now. We are actually getting a fair amount of publicity this year. There are cities, and states around the country that are honoring the Sea Scout Centennial. Unfortunately not a whole lot of it is getting out of the Sea Scout community. You will see a fair amount of info about it on the Western Region Facebook page, the Sea Scout Centennial Blog, and the new Western Region Sea Scout Blog (links below). The content for those blogs is being gathered by the National and Regional Boatswains.

 

Many local ship are also getting their events noticed in their local newspapers and such.

 

The new National Sea Scout website is still in Beta, but it can be seen here:

newseascout.org

 

The Centennial Blog:

seascouts100.wordpress.com

 

The Western Region Blog:

wrseascouts.wordpress.com

[Eagle707]

I'm just waiting for Eagle92 to find this thread and chime in...

 

No offense taken here either. I am an Eagle Scout and a former New Zealand Sea Scout. I have also researched starting a ship with my friend (before we were swamped by our coursework) so I have great respect for Quartermasters.

 

However, please be patient with those who say "so it's like Eagle." They simply see two "terminal" awards and are trying to meet you halfway in understanding the Quartermaster award. Once they demonstrate they are willing to do that, then take the opportunity to correct their misconceptions.

[RememberSchiff]

Definitely agree on stature of Quartermaster and advancement quality, but can we keelhaul those managing the seascout.org , newseascout.org, and BeAScout websites.

 

To the tune of Drunken Sailor

 

What do you do to become a Sea Scout

What do you do to become a Sea Scout

Sail on down to our new website

Sail on down to our new website

There you moor to join

 

Sailed true to newseascout.org

To find a rope to join

Sailed true to newseascout.org

To find a rope to join

Early in the morning

 

A wind blew me off-course

To the whirlpool BeAScout

A wind blew me off-course

To the whirlpool BeAScout

No Sea Scouts could join.

 

An old salt barked

Go find a ship

An old salt barked

Go find a ship

On the old chart seacout.org

 

Sailed down to seascout.org

To find my ship

Sailed down to seascout.org

To find my ship

Clicked on Local Sea Scout Units

 

Ended right back at BeAScout

Ended right back at BeAScout

BeAScout has no line to Sea Scout

And I wish you luck

BeAScout has no line to Sea Scout

And I wish you luck

 

Where had the Ship Locator gone

Where had the Ship Locator gone

Lost in the fog of a landlubber's mind

Lost in the fog of a landlubber's mind

In time for Sea Scout Anniversary.

 

You need a better crew handling the sea scout websites. For now, just have a homepage membership link to a simple static webpage detailing where the units are and point of contacts. Simple, can be done in an hour.

 

Why is it with all these websites, you still need to find a scout to join a unit? Just like back in the day, except scouts were easier to find. There were more of them and they wore uniforms with neckers!

 

My $0.01 for poor lyrics and scoutmanship(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

[Eagle92]

Did someone mention me?

 

My biggest regret in Scouting is not joining the other ship in my council and earning QM. I got as far as Ordinary, and that was pushing my ship to do the BORs as we were not a traditional ship. The other ship would have been a 1.25 hour oneway drive, but in retrospect, they would have been a better fit for what I was looking for. Yes I had fun with my ship, but it was more fun and not challenging.

 

I met 2 QMs in my old council, ok one was an Able working on QM when I worked with him at camp and he got it after I left the council, and I attended the funeral of 1 gentleman who earned Eagle, QM, and Exploring Silver.

 

My interest in Sea Scouting came about because they had a display at a scout show next to my troop's. I filled out paperwork, showed up when they said they meet, and nothing. they were not there. I never received a call,and later found out the ship disbanded shortly after the scout show. A year or two after that, one of the new ASMs we got showed up wearing a blue knot with a white background. he was the first living QM I met, and the stories he told about his ship and their adventures, WOW!!!!!

 

At 18 I found out that a ship existed nearby and I joined it. I didn't know it at the time, but it was not a traditional ship, but I believe would be called a "white fleet" ship that didn't focus on the traditional Sea Scout program, but was more in line with career interest Exploring. Again It wasn't meeting my needs, and I left after getting Ordinary. The OA was what fullfilled those needs.

 

When my council's Pamlico Sea Base was created, although I had nothing to do with the planning, I was assigned ot it as staff for a week, and am a plankowner. I am proud of PSB and think it is a great opportunity not only for Sea Scouts, but everyone. And I hope the new director restarts the ship.

 

Getting back to the OP,

 

OH HECK YEAH THE QM IS HARDER THAN EAGLE! (and yes I am shouting this scouting "blasphemy" as an Eagle )

 

Just look at the first requirement of the ranks, and i'm paraphrasing here, Be active... attend 75% of your ships meetings and activities for XYZ time.

 

Comparing attend 75% of meetings and activities to "being registered onthe charter," and that is a big, more difficult. difference right there.

 

HOWEVER I will say this: Boy Scouts and Sea Scouts do have their strengths and weaknesses. While Sea Scouts do have the advantage over Boy Scouts in what is a traditional Scouting skill, i.e. knots and splices part of Pioneering in Boy Scouts and Marlinspike Seamanship in Sea Scouts, I know with the exception of 3 Sea Scouts who were also Boy Scouts, none of the folks in my ship, youth and officer alike, knew how to really camp. The three of us had to really take care of the ship on our cruise. BUT I can only name a handfull of Boy Scouts who could operate a ship underway. One was also a Sea Scout, and one was working on his pilot's license after doing summers in Maine of some of the tall ships. He eventually did join Sea Scouts after moving, but don't know if he got QM. I do know he's a nautical engineer.

[Eagle92]

Forgot to add, the promo videos, "What did you do this weekend" are working. My oldest, who is a Bear, saw two or three of them and said, "I want to be a Sea Scout." And when he found out I did not earn QM, he said with a smile, "I want to be a QM!"

 

An aside, while I want the kid to have fun, grow physically, mentally, and morally, I pray I do not put pressure on him as I've seen others do, nor do i hope he feels he's living in my shadow.

[qwazse]

Of course it's harder, you have until 21!

I've also challenged Eagle scouts to go for the Hornaday award. No takers yet.

 

Age appropriate challenges are important for all of us. For example I'm in a club where the guys throw down challenges to one guy to entertain the group at the next quarterly meeting by presenting something interesting on a seemingly mundane topic. (The topic is usually chosen by the last guy who presented.) You need to be prepared to be interrupted and cross-examined as you present. It's all in good fun. But, it's not something you'd ask a young kid to do.

 

Woodbadge is a challenge, for some folks. Starting a new BSA unit? Huge challenge!

 

But, the hardest thing about all of these challenges? Setting aside the time to do them!

[Eagle92]

RS,

 

The folks running the original site did an OUTSTANDING job. However national has since taken it over.

[sailingpj]

"You need a better crew handling the sea scout websites. For now, just have a homepage membership link to a simple static webpage detailing where the units are and point of contacts. Simple, can be done in an hour."

 

Perhaps building the page can be done in an hour, but tracking down all the contact info is a lot harder than that. Beascout now has a way for ships to show up as ships. I don't know it, but there is a way.

[CalicoPenn]

Not offended but just trying to figure out why you think this is harder than Eagle?

 

Is it because of all the different knots and splices you have to learn? They may be hard to learn because one is unfamilliar with them, but the T-FC requirements are hard to learn for an 11 year old because he's unfamiliar with them. Are you trying to say there are more Marlinspike Seamanship requirements than T-FC requirements?

 

Teaching to an entire crew? Den Chiefs do it all the time to an entire Den, SPL's, Troop Guides, PL's and Instructors do it as well - teach large groups of people, as well as folks one on one.

 

Have you taken into account the number of Merit Badges a Scout has to earn to become an Eagle Scout in a wide variety of subjects?

 

I'm just not sure it's an insult to say Quartermaster is like Eagle Scout. I don't think you can come up with empirical evidence that one is harder than the other. At least I've not seen any yet.

[sailingpj]

You are probably right, I can't come up with empirical evidence, however I have never met a Quartermaster that cannot tie a square knot. I have taught 3 eagle scouts how to tie a square knot after they had earned their eagle. They came and joined a Sea Scout ship for more challenge. One of them quit because we held him to higher standards than he wanted to achieve. That is my anecdotal evidence based on three you eagle scouts. One was 14, and the other two were 16 and 17. The 14 year old was the one that quit.

 

Maybe I have just had bad experiences, but notice one other thing; there is no internet forum full of Sea Scout adult leaders complaining about people watering down the advancement process. There are no questions about people trying to get around the rank requirements on a technicality.

 

It is not so much the comparison to Eagle that bothers me, it is more the dismissive look that I often get when people reach that conclusion.

[RememberSchiff]

The folks running the original site did an OUTSTANDING job. However national has since taken it over.

 

Not likely that National, aka those to be keelhauled, will return the helm to those Able.

 

Well there is the Way Back Machine web.archive.org

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20110318033244/http://seascout.org/

[Eagle92]

Sailing,

 

When I talk about QM to non-Sea Scout folks, I talk about how it's "equivelent to Eagle," and then go into some details about the requirements.

 

Calico,

 

Unfortuantely for Eagle, all you have to do is be on the charter to meet the "Active" definition, unless the GtA changed that. For the Sea Scout ranks, active means attending 75% of all unit meetings and activities. So just being on a ship's charter won't count.

 

I cannot remember all the requirements and electives, but 2 come to mind. Drill, yes military drill based upon the NavMC 2691 Drill manual, is one of the electives, and I was the "Specialist" for my ship when we tried to implement it since it is a traditional Sea Scout skill that is still used and part of their competitions.

 

The other one that blew my mind was the engineering for nuclear vessals.