Questions about what is appropriate

[qwazse]

Okay, there's a big difference between throwing a stop to an amusement park in the plans and, say, choosing to tackle a class IV rapids on the spur of the moment.

 

Different units demand different levels of flexibility.

 

Obviously if cost overruns are steep or frequent, it will have a long term effect on membership.

[Beavah]

Since he is the adult in charge, he does need to answer to them personally instead of a youth. Actually, he should of contacted the parenst first before changing the plans as parents did not agree to or sign any permission slips for the extra unplanned activities.

 

Nah, the Scoutmaster doesn't "answer to" the parents at all, eh? He is a volunteer for the Chartered Organization and answers to them, not personally to individual parents.

 

The last thing in the world that we should put in place is a notion that every time an itinerary has to change to deal with an ill or injured scout the SM has to go personally notify and get new permission from every single parent of every child on the trip.

 

Again, I think a bit of calm readin' from a balanced perspective is in order here. This is a parent and a boy who are new to the program, eh? First big trip away. Lisabob is right, the Advisor should try to be understandin' and helpful. At the same time, we all know as scouters that sometimes no matter how many ways yeh try to communicate with new families the message doesn't get across until they actually have the experience. That's the way most humans learn, eh? Not by bein' talked at or readin' the things that get mailed out, but by experience.

 

B

[Twocubdad]

I don't know if this is still in the information for the new "tour plans" but it used to be that substantial deviations from a tour permit required a call to the service center to amend the permit.

 

Maybe "answerable to" isn't the right word, but if we make substantial changes to a planned trip, yeah, we're going to let the parents know. Call it courtesy or call it CYA, but it just seems like the right thing to do.

 

[ScoutNut]

Any contact with the parents to inform them of emergencies, or substantial changes, during a trip should be thru the at-home contact person for the trip.

 

If the parents have questions about a trip they should contact the at-home contact person.

 

Having every parent (or even just one) calling the trip leader for updates constantly is just unproductive. As is expecting the trip leader to call every parent every time there is any change to the trip. The leader would spend more time on the phone than actually "leading" the youth on the trip.

[qwazse]

SN,

 

If this advisor is anything like me, he probably didn't make clear who the at-home contact was. In this day of cell phones and unlimited calling plans, the at-home contact isn't leveraged as well as they should be.

 

But as is the case here, such a person could save a lot of unnecessary cross-talk.

[5scoutmom]

My husband and I are the adult leaders of a Venture crew. We have 2 other male adult leaders and three young men in their early 20's as leaders. We have about 3 girls registered but they rarely camp. When one of them does, we have an arrangement with a female scouter from another district who likes to camp. I can not camp for physical reasons so this woman meets the crew at the camp site on those occasions. When she could not attend one trip, I had to tell our one female member who wanted to camp that she couldn't go. She's my oldest son's girlfriend. She wound up going out just for the day and my son brought her home after dinner.

 

I would be concerned about this situation for many reasons. First, what the heck activity were they doing that two kids were hurt? Who vetted this activity? Why were the kids sleeping at the advisor's home? etc etc all of which was covered. There are many ways to deal with adult leadership issues and still remain in compliance.

 

 

[Beavah]

She's my oldest son's girlfriend. She wound up going out just for the day and my son brought her home after dinner.

 

And there we go breakin' the G2SS driving rules, eh?

 

I reckon sometimes ordinary common sense gets in the way of "compliance."

 

From what I understood from the posting the two members were injured before they started the trip. Perhaps school sports injuries or somesuch. So they may have waited around for 'em or decided to bring them along but modify the trip so they could participate.

 

You're right, though, that that wasn't clear.

 

Beavah

 

[qwazse]

Beav, from another thread, oldest son is now an adult, so you could have picked up a bigger stone to throw.

[Deaf Scouter]

Going back to the phone issue, the leader may have felt the parent would be reassured once the heard their child voice hence the reason for handing the phone over.

[5scoutmom]

Beavah -

 

You sre right, I was not clear about the 2 deep situation. My oldest son drove his girlfriend home but he was accompanied by another adult leader, also 21, and my 15 year old son. After dropping her, the 3 guys went back to camp as it was only about a 40 minute drive. My son's girlfriend is over 18 but I treat her as under in venture context.

 

As for the injury situation in the original post, I re-read it and you may be right that the injuries occurred pre-trip but I was not certain either.

 

5scoutmom

 

 

[qwazse]

5mom, I was referring to point 10 on the last page of BSA's youth protection policy:

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/ypt/pdf/25-026.pdf

 

Which many crews like yours turn a blind eye to if the couple in question are only two or three years apart in age. As was discussed in the following thread:

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=283974

[5scoutmom]

Qwase -

 

I am aware of fraternization and inappropriate social relationships. My son and his girlfriend have been a couple for over 4 years now, well before there was crew involvement. I have my feelings about this because they are both so young, but there is nothing inappropriate about their relationship. In actuality, they treat each other with a level of respect and trust that many older married couples would find it tough to emulate.

 

With that said, we have shown the youth protection videos to the members and their parents and my son knows that he is an example and a role model. We have never permitted inappropriate conduct between him and his girlfriend because my son has 4 younger siblings - they were not allowed to be in his room with the door closed, etc.

 

On camping trips and other functions, they do not travel alone together, although they clearly spend time alone in the car when not engaged in scout activities. They do not tent together and they are not allowed to wander off together unless they are in a group. When the crew is broken down into groups, my son and his girlfriend are never put in a situation where he supervises her. Both of them have respected the guidelines and I would not hesitate to suspend my son if he did violate a guideline.

 

I understand your point and would probably feel differently if they were not already a couple when they joined the crew. We make every effort to comply with the rules and think we are doing a good job.

[qwazse]

I think you're doing exactly what I'd do in the situation.

I wouldn't want to pull a good leader off the roster if they are in a healthy relationship.

But it is something that could get blown out of proportion by a parent who only heard half the story from a 14 year old. We would hope that such a parent would call us first before making a phone call to our SE.

[qwazse]

I think you're doing exactly what I'd do in the situation.

I wouldn't want to pull a good leader off the roster if they are in a healthy relationship.

But it is something that could get blown out of proportion by a parent who only heard half the story from a 14 year old. We would hope that such a parent would call us first before making a phone call to our SE.

[sailingpj]

With regards to the phone being handed off, on my ship there are often times when parents end up calling the adults because their kid isn't answering the phone (generally because we are on a boat and people usually leave their phones inside so they don't drop the phones in the water). Often the leader receiving the call just hands their phone off to the kid to answer. 9/10 times the parent is looking to talk to their kid, and our officers have gotten tired of being the messenger.