Questions about what is appropriate

[VentureMom]

Hello, my 14-year-old son is on a venturing trip with his troop. There are 4 boys, 2 girls, 1 male chaperone and 1 female chaperone. The first night there was only the one male chaperone and they all stayed in the same room with him. Is this a usual occurence? The leader was not clear that there would only be the one chaperone that night. The female chaperone met them at the town where they are staying; she did not travel with them. They are also doing a lot of activities that parents were not asked to pay for like going to an amusement park, etc. Thank you.

[acco40]

Two-deep leadership on all outings required. Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips and outings. There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when the presence of adult leaders is not required and adult leadership may be limited to training and guidance of the patrol leadership. With the proper training, guidance, and approval by the troop leaders, the patrol can conduct day hikes and service projects. Appropriate adult leadership must be present for all overnight Scouting activities; coed overnight activitieseven those including parent and childrequire male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older, and one of whom must be a registered member of the BSA. The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities. -G2SS

 

Now, be prepared to get follow-up posts about what is "required" and what is "guidelines." IMO, your charter organization would find what occurred as unacceptable.

[shortridge]

There's also this from the Guide to Safe Scouting: "Separate housing must be provided for male and female participants. An adult male leader must be housed with the male participants. An adult female leader must be housed with the female participants."

 

So that's two violations by my count - no male/female leadership and no separate sleeping areas. Very bad practice.

[VentureMom]

Thank you. The first night was spent at the male leader's home with just him as chaperone of the boys and girls. Not sure what was going on there; no one let us know that was going to be the case. The trip they had planned was changed because two members were injured; the money we paid is not nearly enough to cover what they are now doing. We are not sure what is going on. When my husband called the leader to ask questions, he immediately handed the phone to my son. We did not want to talk to my son, we wanted to talk to the leader about what was going on. They will be gone for 3 more days and are 4 hours away. I can only hope they were telling the truth about the other chaperone being there.

[Basementdweller]

Our crew is a female crew and takes 3 adult females with them......

 

Our crew is going very shortly be coed.....We will then need two men and two adult women minimum.

[Scoutfish]

" When my husband called the leader to ask questions, he immediately handed the phone to my son. We did not want to talk to my son, we wanted to talk to the leader about what was going on. They will be gone for 3 more days and are 4 hours away."

 

Okay, I'm gonna skip anything about rule violations because in a few days, you will have several pages of replies that will tell you basically the same thing.

 

This "leader" changes plans, changes activities, does not give you clar info, intentionally decieves you, and then ignores you when you ask what's goin on whiule four hours away?

 

If this was my child's crew, this man would find himself out of a job.....fast!

 

[Scouter.]

My kid?

4 hours away?

 

If it smells like a duck...and it quacks like a duck...it's probably a duck. (And this is one smelly duck too).

 

I think your concerns are valid. Beyond that...the fact you are asking tells me you are very concerned.

 

Me? I would be in my car going to get my son now.

 

I would rather be overprotective and wrong than ...not so and right about my fears. At best... Your son is in a bad situation.

[shortridge]

I know things change, problems arise, etc., but the rules still have to be adhered to.

 

It could be that the youth changed the plan - they do run the show in Venturing - but YPT is not optional. It's the adult leader's responsibility to make sure it's followed.

[qwazse]

This kind of planning could kill a unit.

 

Yes, we've had to fall back on plans B, C, and D. Yes, we've had cost overruns. Sometimes, the "separate quarters" rule requires a little creativity. That's okay as long as communication is clear. But ...

 

I've canceled outings over an inability to provide adequate coverage of adult leaders. I'd expect any other crew advisor to do the same.

 

At the same time, the youth may be perfectly safe. But, talk to the Crew's committee chairman or the charter org. rep. If this is a common occurrence you don't want your boy in this crew.

 

If this is a one-off occurence and the advisor was just trying to manage a very fluid situation, then smooth things over and offer to chaperon the next time.

[hotdesk]

As a young adult leader (still in my 20's) I find this crazy and probably unacceptable. I would never put myself in a position like that to have allegations made that I did something inappropriate. This guy should be a lot more transparent with the parents. He's putting himself, the Venture Crew, and scouting in a lot of jeporady.

 

Even though I'm not a parent, I think I would ask my son a few hard questions about what happend this weekend. I would probably ask my Chartered Organization what the heck was going on and if they were aware of the situtation.

[ScoutNut]

>>"The first night was spent at the male leader's home with just him as chaperone of the boys and girls.">"The first night there was only the one male chaperone and they all stayed in the same room with him.">"When my husband called the leader to ask questions, he immediately handed the phone to my son.">"talk to the Crew's committee chairman or the charter org. rep."

[fred8033]

"The first night was spent at the male leader's home with just him as chaperone of the boys and girls."

 

This is a huge red flag in my mind. Maybe it was innocent. Maybe it was just a bad decision. BUT ... it's not good. Here's what I'm reading into this.

 

- "at the male leader's home" ... means it was local and close to the homes of the scouts ... if the leader had problems with having enough leaders, he could have delayed the event or called a parent to come stay too or sent the scouts home and restart the event the next day. It's a red flag because he had easy choices to fix the situation.

 

- "with just him as chaperone" ... means he invited scouts into his house without another adult. It's a red flag because most abuse happens with someone familiar to the victim. Often at their house. Scout leaders should know this and should want to avoid misperceptions.

 

- "leader" ... means he's familiar with the emphasis on YPT. He knows a female leader is required. He knows two-deep leadership is required, especially at his own house. He should have been trained. He should know this. Heck, can he get a tour permit without having YPT? It's a red flag because it's expected that he knows BSA requirements.

 

Either the leader is inexperienced ... or untrained ... or making bad decisions ... or not taking program expectations seriously. I would not throw around accusations, but I would protect my son. What that means is your decision.

 

...

 

Hopefully, it's not as bad as you described. Hopefully, there was a 2nd adult. Hopefully, things were covered and safe.

 

...

 

We had a local SM who abused scouts over a long period of time. When I think about it, I get pissed. Of course at the SM. But I get even more pissed because multiple parents in the troop kept thinking something was weird and wrong but did not do anything over a period of years.

 

Protect your son. Protect the other youth. Pursue it.(This message has been edited by fred8033)

[BDPT00]

Lots of questions and answers needed.

Interesting that nobody has suggested calling the Scout Executive or the police. If something went wrong, you'll suddenly see responses telling you what posters would have done immediately. Right. I don't see any of that yet. That always comes after the fact. Whatever happens, this guy has messed up big time. This is way out of line.

BDPT00

[OldGreyEagle]

I know what the BSA says is normally scoffed at, but this is what the Guide to SAfe Scouting says about Co-Ed activities:

 

Aropriate adult leadership must be present for all overnight Scouting activities; coed overnight activitieseven those including parent and childrequire male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older, and one of whom must be a registered member of the BSA. The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities.

 

Now, as it says "Male and Female leaders, BOTH of whom" I and the rest of the Council I serve have taken this to mean one adult of both sexes. Chartering organizaitons of the units themselves may wish to add to the requirements, and this is one area where they certainly may add.

 

In the situtation described, this did not happen as their wa no second leader, since it was Co-ed the second leader would have had to be a female over 21

[Basementdweller]

I was thinking about that too.....why in the world would he have them stay at his house in town.....I know that when I go on an outing I definitely want to get a decent night sleep the night before.......

 

Yep think this needs reported to the SE as a significant YP violation.