Questions about what is appropriate

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmm...

 

VentureMom, I assume by the age of your son and the nature of these questions that you are a new parent in the crew. Perhaps yeh might call one of the other parents in the program who have been involved longer who might have more detailed information on the outing that would set your mind at ease? Yeh might have heard the term "Committee Chair" or have a roster of the crew with that position listed. That's probably a parent who can fill yeh in. I'd start there.

 

There are lots of good reasons for a crew to get together the night before departure, to gather gear, buy & repackage food, load cars, etc. And sometimes, when plans get hit by injuries or other problems they have to be adjusted to the circumstances.

 

The BSA expects no one-on-one contact with youth, and two-deep leadership on outings. The first is a barrier to abuse allegations, the latter is for safety should there be a problem, and also as an additional barrier to such allegations. There are emergent circumstances where either might break down. Particularly in the case of an injury, it is likely that one adult would accompany the youth to medical care, leaving the other adult "alone" with the rest of the group for a time. Additionally, we don't allow tenting between boys and girls or leaders and youth. Sleeping in one big room happens fairly frequently in large cabins, church floors, and the like, in which case youth and adults are just careful to maintain privacy and separate changing areas and such. There's also a balance between adults sleeping separately and adults needing to be there to supervise in such situations.

 

As you're learning here, most experienced adult leaders would consider what you're describing, if you're describing it correctly, as being a bit too "fast and loose" for our taste. Odds are it's not a problem, but there's certainly enough there to raise our collective level of alertness.

 

I'd be less concerned about the finances; particularly this early in the season amusement parks have all kinds of specials and group deals and such, and it may well be that the crew has some sort of complementary early season tickets. I'd be mildly more alert to the change in itinerary (if this is a change), but that may be a result of the injuries you mention. It's also good to be aware that calls from home in the middle of trips that aren't family emergencies are often treated as inappropriate, and some units just prohibit cell phones so as to avoid all of that stuff, so yeh might cut leaders a bit of slack if you've been makin' multiple calls.

 

So I would start by calling the Committee Chair and talking parent-to-parent.

Perhaps, if yeh feel comfortable, share what your son said when you spoke to him on the phone and that might tell us a bit more.

 

After that, yeh have two choices. If yeh are really uncomfortable, go pick him up from the event and bring him home. If your concern does not rise to that level, after he gets home pull him from the program until yeh meet with the adult leaders and yeh get your expectations straight. As others have mentioned, what you're reporting is too fast-and-loose for the program, so unless there is a satisfactory explanation yeh should also call the local scout council office and ask to speak to someone to report a possible Youth Protection concern.

 

Please let us know if yeh have any additional information or questions.

 

Kindest regards,

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Twocubdad]

1. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES would my child be permitted to attend another crew function until I had some very clear and specific answers about the situation.

 

2. Go to www.MyScouting.org and take the Youth Protection Training course. Make sure you take the course specifically for Venturing. It will help you understand the BSA policies regarding adult supervision so you can decide for yourself if what has occurred is appropriate. I think it is easier for you to understand the youth protection policies than for us to understand all the nuiances of your situation.

 

3. Get one-on-one with the folk responsible for this crew. The crew committee chair, the Chartered Organization Representative for the sponsoring organization, the District Executive (a professional BSA employee -- some councils may have DEs assigned geographically, some may have a DE assigned to the Venturing program specifically0, or ultimately, the Scout Executive for your council (the top professional scouter in your area). That would be working your way up the chain of command. There is something to be said for starting with the Scout Executive and working your way down. BSA is no different that any other organization -- if your go up the chain of command you may waste a lot of time and not get the responses you need; if you go right to the top you risk burning bridges behind you. You've have to decide which is best. And by the way, when you call the Scout Executive, say you are a parent with a potentially serious youth protection issue and need to speak with the SE personally -- he WILL answer the phone.

 

4. I don't think it is time to call law enforcement or social services. There is no allegation of abuse or criminal conduct, just a violation of BSA policy. But we don't have all the facts here. VentureMom, if you have a real suspicion that some sort of abuse or illegal activity has occurred, you should contact the authorities right away.

[Jeffrey H]

"When my husband called the leader to ask questions, he immediately handed the phone to my son. We did not want to talk to my son, we wanted to talk to the leader about what was going on..."

Red Flag.  This was an immature and disrespectful action by the so-called leader.  If I have questions, I expect them to be answered by the person I'm addressing.  Where there is no accountability, trouble is waiting.

 

[qwazse]

VMom may be well within her rights to call council headquarters directly.

 

"Units are responsible for enforcing Youth Protection policies. The head of the chartered organization or chartered organization representative and the local council must approve the registration of the units adult leader. Adult leaders of Scouting units are responsible for monitoring the behavior of youth members and interceding when necessary. Parents of youth members who misbehave should be informed and asked for assistance. Any violations of the BSAs Youth Protection policies must immediately be reported to the Scout executive."

 

My interpretation of how this should happen is:

- Advisor informs committee chair and charter org. rep. of change in plans.

- COR scrambles to get the crew the adult leadership they need, or gets everyone transported back to home.

- COR informs SE of the violation. At that time he/she should be able to give his or her confidential assessment of any threat of abuse. (This is assuming there was no actual evidence of abuse. But, there may be related incidents that might raise or allay the SE's concern.)

 

If I were the advisor in this situation, my first call may very well have been directly to the SE.

 

My point is, a parent should be able to call up the chain of accountability and discover that everyone is aware of the situation.

[VentureMom]

Thank you all for your responses. We have decided to wait until he returns and then address this with the appropriate scouting management/leaders. One issue is that this "leader" does a lot for the scouts and donates a lot of time and money (he has no kids of his own and is not married) and is in a higher-up volunteer leadership position. I do not think my son is in immediate danger or I would go get him, and I do not think he would not know what to do if an uncomfortable situation arose (we discussed the Sandusky case at length as it was unfolding). He will not, however, go on another trip with this leader until and unless there are specific concerns addressed and changes made, or if I go with him, which I really don't want to do as he is ready to be independent of mama and daddy tagging along.

 

Again, thanks for your responses. You all have been very helpful.

[qwazse]

or if I go with him, which I really don't want to do as he is ready to be independent of mama and daddy tagging along.

 

This is a common misconception among parents of adolescents. It's true we don't want a parent to be an imposing figure in the boy's age-appropriate interactions with his crew or troop. But we absolutely do need caring adults who will get to know us and the other youth in the unit and be physically present to help us think through situations like this.

 

Having already contributed lots of time and money to an organization does not mean that I can go it alone, even though I have tremendous faith in myself and know I could go it alone. Even for a day.

 

So if you conclude this guy is worth sticking with, let him know that you want to help him avoid this situation in the future. Why? Because you won't be the only mother of a 14 y.o. who needs to be sure their kids are in good hands!

[Scouter.]

Thank you for letting the forum know how things are going.

 

I do want to make mention that although a Scouter does a lot, spends much time, spends much money, and/or holds a high position in the crew, district, or otherwise - they are not exempt from BSA regulation or the "Guide to Safe Scouting".

 

That publication (G2SS) is there for a reason.

 

I first hand was unknowingly AT RISK in the same circumstances for several years. As a youth, I did not understand that certain things were not appropriate.

 

The leader was a Vigil Honor, District Award Of Merit, and a Silver Beaver recipient.

 

The Council eventually (after I had moved on) found out and launched a huge investigation.

 

Many things came out that SHOULD NOT have occurred. Many youth were harmed because our parents assumed that since this leader had awards, tenure, position in the council, time, and money. I don't blame anyone really, but...I simply ask...

 

How can WE best protect our children when they are not with US?

 

I hope I never have to deal with this situation, but I can say without a doubt, I know how I will deal with it if it does occur.

 

Things do not always turn out well, but I sincerely hope that everything does turn out well and are adjusted in the future.

 

[Eagle92]

Lots of good advice already given. Just my thoughts.

 

If he is a high level volunteer, he knows the rules,a nd has undergone those repeatedly, if in fact he hasn't taught the class a time or two.. Heck every leader needs YPT prior to turning in the application.

 

This is not a good situation. Trust your instincts. I would even be willing to drive the 4 hours afterwork to check in them, among other things already suggested.

[GKlose]

Hmmm, in some ways, I'm wondering if all of you bit on a 4/1 posting. :-)

 

If it is actually true, of course, then please ignore this message.

 

Guy

[Eagle92]

If it is a 4-1 joke, it was a good one.

 

If not, "RUN FOR YOUR LIFE"

[Engineer61]

Red flags everywhere.

 

Private home overnight, co-ed, only one adult, redirected communication, single, no kids.

[BadenP]

 

I am with G Close on this one, the original post smells like the work of a troll. Too many things wrong all at once, a bit of creative writing if you ask me. However the responses were all good and spot on.

[Tampa Turtle]

May be a troll maybe not. You know if a decent Scouter makes a YPT mistake he will own up to it. This weekend I went into a camp restroom and was alone with a boy; it didn't register until later as he appeared to be bleeding so I rendered aide. When I left I went to the a SM and another ASM and let them know what happened.

[VentureMom]

This is ABSOLUTELY NOT the work of a troll or April Fool's Day joke. I am a REAL mother of a new Venture scout with a REAL problem. I am sorry I posted on that particular day or if my original question seemed insincere or funny. I do appreciate those responses that were helpful; THANK YOU for not ignoring me or thinking this was written in jest.

[Scouter.]

VentureMom...

 

Please do not judge this forum by the posts of few. I am new to this forum and have found lots of wisdom here.

 

Again, I wish you and your family that all is well and turns out well.

 

Peace...Scouter.