Den Leader

[loolohman@frontier.com]

Is it against BSA policy to cash out an individual scout account so a single scout can attend a summer camp not supported by BSA?

[KC9DDI]

To the best of my knowledge, the BSA does not have any policies on individual scout accounts. That's up the the unit committee and the CO.

[perdidochas]

I would think it would depend on the source of the money in the account. If from selling popcorn, I would say no. If from some sort of troop function, it depends on the by-laws and the committeee.

[loolohman@frontier.com]

Well, our pack doesn't have any written policy about cashing out or transferring an individual account. The committee voted to OK cashing out the account with me casting a no vote. The entire amount of money was from popcorn sales. I was concerned because of a potential issue with violating IRS tax policy with regards to non-profit organizations. I also felt cashing out the account was immoral because this money was from popcorn sales. I'm now in the process of writing a policy the committee can vote to adopt so there our hopefully no issues with individual accounts in the future. Any suggestions for wording in a policy would be greatly appreciated.

[Stosh]

To take in money under a certain pretense and then use it for another is basic money laundering. People gave money to the BSA and individual accounts is an overlooked stretch when the boy buys personal items with it rather than part of the BSA program, i.e. summer camp. To use it for non-BSA purposes is a stretch I would never want to take in light of the Scout Law. Trustworthy. I'm raising money to go to camp (while wearing his scout uniform) indicates to the contributor that the boy will use it for the program which he is promoting. Would the person buy popcorn from a scout with the assumption that he was going to bible camp with it? I don't think so.

 

Stosh

 

 

[momof2cubs]

Well loolohman, it looks like it is a done deal. You are right in trying to prevent this kind of thing from happening again by having an established rule.

 

Personally, I think it is outrageous. The money was raised for BSA events. It was sold to people under the auspices of BSA and people assumed it would go to support BSA activities. In simple words, it was stolen in my opinion.

 

Nothing you can do about that particular boy; except I would look at him and his parent LOOOOONG and HARD before allowing them to participate in any kind of future fundraising activities. Just fix the rules so it won't happen again.

[KC9DDI]

What type of summer camp is it then?

 

The guidelines that my units have used have been something like:

 

Funds may be used for:

* Payment for annual troop dues

* Payment towards any official troop or patrol activity (camp outs, summer camp)

* Payment towards uniform items (including the troop t-shirt)

[Scoutfish]

My opinion, for what it's worth...at least $0.08...or less, if the money is used for scouting or scout related events, then it's okay.

 

That's how our pack does it. But we do not cash out anything. WE will pick up what the scout wants or pay for it for him.

 

Examples rank book, uniform parts, council/district camps and events. Camporees , den go see its and other den activitys. Pack t shirts, pack camping or den camping events ( for Webelos scouts) .

 

If a scout does not have a sleeping bag or tent, we can purchase one for him .

 

I know that some people consider that crossing trhe line with the arguement taht:

"A scout couldm sell the tent for money"

 

Well, they are right, he could. But that same scout can also quit scouts the day after his uniform or scout book is given to him, and he could sell that too for the money.

 

"He might use his tent for personal use outside of the pack."

 

Yeah, and he might wear his uniform pants or shirt outside of the pack too. He might sell/trade one of his patches, beltloops, or anything else scout related to one of his non scout school mates or neighborhood friends too.

 

Point is, we do not give the scout cash to go to Wal-Mart to buy video games, matchbox cars or anything like that.

 

WE do not cash out or give them cash.

 

It must be used for scouting or scouting related items and events/ supplies.

 

Edited because I forgot to mention the OP question:

 

Yeah, I'd not feel right about that summer camp if it's not directly related to scouting wether your council's or district's camp or another council's or district's camp.

 

Summer camp. You could also just as easily say band camp, disney camp,space camp equestrian camp, lego camp, Van Camp's pork and beans ( sorry, couldn't help it! )

 

 

So, in my opinion, that would not be an acceptable use of the money.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

[DeanRx]

1) This is why I'm not in favor of individual accounts, but I see why some folks want them. My take is you are part of something larger than yourself (the unit) and some things you do for the good of the unit (like raising funds). Now, some will argue that if a small % do the work and a large % reap the reward, then this is not fair (these folks are called young republicans... just kidding). Anyways, people (most often parents, not the scouts) scream about how unfair it is.

 

2) This is why when our unit committee VOTED to have individual accounts, I (and a couple other leaders) agreed on the condition that the bylaws be changed to reflect WHAT funds could / could not be used for and what happens to said funds if scout drops out of transfers to another unit.

 

We settled on personal account funds could be used for anything scout related (yes, up to and including tents, backpacks, etc...). The scout or parent had to "purchase" the item up front and submit an expense report with a copy of the receipt to get reimbursed. The exception to this rule was dues, re-charter, Blue-&-Gold payment, camp fees, etc... Then the unit just paid the bill for the scout.

 

Secondly, if the scout left the unit - their remaining $ revert back to the unit general fund, period. No taking it to another unit, no taking with you when you cross over to Boy Scouts, etc...

 

I had one parent in the last 5 years challenge me on this. I told them (with the backing of the committee) that we could cut "johnny" a check, but that I needed his SSN so I could report it out to the IRS as earned income for the year. That was the end of the discussion.

 

The issue for the OP, is the cat is already out of the bag. Your unit has already allowed this, so the precedent is set. How do you tell the next guy "no, we don't do that" when you have in fact already allowed someone else to "cash out"?

 

You need to get your unit by-laws in order and get ALL your committee members and CO on the same page on this issue, then stick to whatever you decide. This is one time that pre-planning for a "what if" pays off huge. Those that push for individual accounts will want the $$ sooner or later, because they already view the $$ as being theirs, not the units. Hence, the push for individual accounts in the 1st place!

 

Plus, how do you run a unit if you have 10K in the bank, but $8500 is earmarked to individual scouts? You have cash in the bank, but no general funds to run the unit... you are just the banker for the boys.

[ScoutNut]

The money in "Scout Accounts" does NOT belong to the Scout. It is not simply a mini personal business venture for the Scout.

 

The money in all of the Scout Accounts is held by the Charter Organization, and is to be used for SCOUTING purposes ONLY.

 

From the "Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America", under Article XI, Section 1 - Finance :

 

"All money raised by or received for the benefit of a unit or local council and all property acquired by a unit or local council shall be deemed to be received or acquired solely for the benefit of Scouting as interpreted and promoted by the Boy Scouts of America."

 

Also :

 

"In the event of the dissolution of a unit or the revocation or lapse of its charter, the unit committee shall apply unit funds and property to the payment of unit obligations and shall turn over the surplus, if any, to the local council, if there is one, or if there is no local council, dispose of the same in accordance with the direction of the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America. In the case of a chartered organization, any funds or equipment which may have been secured as property of the unit shall be held in trust by the chartering organization or the chartered local council, as may be agreed upon, pending reorganization of the unit or for the promotion of the program of the Boy Scouts of America."

 

If a Scout "cashed out" his Scout account in order to attend a personal, non-Scout related, Summer Camp, then I recommend that this Scout receives an IRS form showing this amount as taxable income to the Scout.

 

Of course that might cause the Pack's Charter Organization's tax status to be in question, and might loose the Pack it's charter. But obviously that is of no concern to your Pack Committee.

 

Perhaps someone (Pack Committee Chair?) might wish to give the Charter Organization a head's up, and explain what they decided to do with the CO's funds, why, and what the consequences might be.