Eagle Scout - Co-Ed ever?

[Eagle92]

' Skip,

 

I was told that the GG actually forced the issue on the Scout Association. What I was told is that they SA was looking into it and hadn't decided yet when the GG made some type of annoucement about SA goign coed, etc tec.

[Cambridgeskip]

Eagle92 - That is a new one on me. If anything GG were resistant to it for fear of losing out on members.

[Crew21_Adv]

Fellow Scouters,

 

Greetings!

 

Just a few of comments.

 

Scouter, how dare you ask a question like this.. (just joking).

 

While it seems similar. Changing to Co-Educational and a merger with any other youth organization (or all female organization) are two separate issues, and maybe pursued under different threats.

 

We are not on the executive boards. It's fun for us to dialogue about different aspects, and maybe some people listen/read this forum. But this online forum is not were policy is established.

 

If young ladies and families are asking about the possibility of joining the BSA throughout the various ages/programs and Earning Webelos/AoL and Eagle. We must have a really good character, citizenship and fitness program, right?

 

Do I see BSA eventually offering the Eagle Scout to a co-ed program, or fully integrating regardless of gender?

I do. Eventually.

I'm not in any rush, and I'm not "foot stomping"; but I can see it happening.

Eventually.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[Eagle92]

'Skip

 

I'm just repeating what I was told by a long term UK pro, I'm guessing he was a pro since he was employed by the Scout Association, I met in '95, so it's second hand. But I was discussing it with him and he said that the SA was looking into going coed, but had not made an official decision about it. They were still researching the various aspects of it. Then the GG come out and start discussing how the SA was going coed, their concerns, etc. Once the GG announced it, the SA decided what the heck and went coed. Now he did say that the research was leaning towards going coed, but it was still in the research phase when GG made the annoucement. And apparently that announcement caused some havoc.

 

And I can see why the GG were afraid. I know of one GG troop that had a Queen's Scout as an assistant leader. When the GG troop wasn't offering the challenges she thought the girls needed, she left taking half the GG troop with her to creat a SA troop that was all female. Again this was in '95 when units could be all male, all female, or coed, which I beleive has now changed on your side of the pond.

[Eagledad]

>>Do I see BSA eventually offering the Eagle Scout to a co-ed program, or fully integrating regardless of gender?

I do. Eventually.

[KC9DDI]

Eagledad makes some interesting points...

 

Experts say boys and girls dont mix well during the boy scout age years

 

That's a pretty broad statement - what do we mean by "mix well"? Boys and girls seem to "mix" just fine in the majority of our country's schools, and the majority of other countries' Scouting programs. So what's the specific concern here?

 

Of course, it's worth noting that there do seem to be some definite advantages to single-gender programs in some areas - while a minority, the number of all-guys or all-girls schools is definitely not negligible - and I'm sure that they offer many advantages over co-ed schools, but there's surely some disadvantages as well. Probably depends a lot on the individual boy or girl. So, while I think I would like to see more of the BSA's program go co-ed, I can definitely see the attraction of a single-gender program as well.

 

which I discount because thats not a valid reason for diluting a quality program.

 

I missed how going co-ed would dilute the quality of the BSA's program?

 

I wonder if it's possible to identify the specific areas of the program that are strong because of the single-gender-ness of the program, and find a way to keep those program areas single-gender, while making the rest of the program co-ed? Just a thought.

 

Lets face it, the youth arent demanding the programs be mixed, mixing the genders is an adult thing. What is our problem.?

 

Well, Barry, to be fair, I don't think the youth are exactly clamoring for the Declaration of Religious Principle, the exclusion of homosexuals, or the whole moral/citizenship/leadership development angle either, but we keep those around. So what's our problem? :-)

[BadenP]

Barry

 

Some interesting points but not entirely accurate. First of all coed boy scouting IMO is inevitable, especially seeing the dynamic firsthand with my Venturing crew. We have had six boys become Eagle scouts in our crew and I have seen the faces and heard the conversations of the girls at each ECOH we have held. They would love to have an opportunity to earn the Eagle themselves, and most of them are very capable of doing just that. I rather doubt that it would shake the institution of scouting all that much.

 

As far as the "wealthy alumni setting the course of scouting", that is not entirely true. Most of those guys were former scouts and they quite frankly need the write off for their taxes so why not the BSA. Most of them really could care less about how the program is run, it is the recognition and write off that really concerns them.

[Oak Tree]

I do expect that at some point there will be girl Eagle Scouts, if and when girls are allowed into the program in general.

 

American Heritage Girls has a Stars and Stripes award that is patterned after the Eagle award. If BSA merged with AHG, they could either keep the awards separate or call them both Eagle.

 

I do expect girl Eagle Scouts to happen within my lifetime. I don't ever expect a merger of BSA and GSUSA.

[qwazse]

There's no merging with AHG any more than there is with GS.

 

If this happens, I think there are two pathways:

 

1. BSA becoming co-ed. That's a long way off given the American's strong cultural bent toward unisex programs. The only way I see this really happening is through a concerted effort of chartered organizations.

2. The BSA National Youth Cabinet fielding a petition (to whom? not sure) to allow earning First Class via Venturing. There would be no tenderfoot or second class rank: one advisor's conference, one board of review. All of the requirements would need to be translated into the crew leadership model (e.g., crew officers sign off on progress, etc ...). Non-scouts of both sexes would be eligible.

 

Unlike BP's young women, mine have seen Eagle awarded through our troop, and none seemed to have voiced interest in obtaining it themselves. (Perhaps the pomp and circumstance of the Courts of Honor -- male leadership and all -- was off-putting?)

 

One non-scout boy voiced interest in Eagle, so I offered him a possible end-run. (Join our troop for 6-12 months, to try and earn First Class. Feel free to work on remaining ranks through troop or crew, depending on whom you are most comfortable with.) He didn't take me up on the offer.

[BadenP]

qwasze

 

I do not see boy scout ranks in Venturing ever, except for the current provisions for a former boy scout to get Eagle. The Venturing advancements of Bronze, Gold, Silver, Ranger, Trust, and Quest are more than sufficent, tenderfoot, 2nd, 1st class, Star and Life belong to boy scouts and IMHO Eagle should also have to remain there as well. Personally I think the Venturing Silver Award is a good equivalent for Venturers,and when combined with the Ranger Award is vastly superior to the current Eagle Award. So if I could change Venturing it would be removing any and all ties to the boy scout program, not the BSA just the boy scout program.

 

PS- I guess our crew just puts on a fancier ECOH than your troop does qwasze, lol.

[Cambridgeskip]

Eagle 92 - can't say I'd ever heard that one before but in 1995 I was 17 year old Venture Scout and may not have taken much notice! During the mid 90s there was a lot of research going on, indeed my Venture Scout unit (which would normally have been for 15-20 year olds) officially piloted the current Explorer age range (14-18) while I was there and was a fantastic success. I know elsewhere a number of other pilot schemes were in place all of which led to the massive shake up we saw here in the early 2000s.

 

In 1997 I was cub leader with a group in my university town in Durham. We started taking girls and the Brownies who shared the church hall with us were furious. But a year later we were bigger and so were they, there really was nothing for them to fear at all.

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

How did you "start taking girls" in Cub Scouts?

[Cambridgeskip]

The group exec, on the recomendation of all the leaders, decided to make the group coed. A notice up in the church hall and a couple in the local primary school soon had the phones ringing. A couple of weeks later the first girls walked through the door. Simples!

[Moggie]

Venture scouting in the UK went co-ed in 1976ish, this co-incided with but not as a result of the introduction of the Sexual Discrimination Act 1975. The rest of the time table is as Skip reported.

In my group we had several debates about co-ed scouting; given that the choice to go co-ed is irrevocable you can understand the initial reluctance. In the end as a group we introduced co-ed in the scout troop first. This being based on the premise that if co-ed was introduced in the younger sections then girls by default were eligable for the older sections, plus we had (and still have) very extensive waiting lists for beavers and cubs.

Having girls in the troop didn't have a significant effect on the dynamics of the troop other than patrol camping, which required greater planning to manage sleepping arrangements and still keep the patrol ethos.

This happened in about 2004 for us, so when three years later it was announced that co-ed was to the norm it wasn't such a culture shock.

We have co-ed scouting in all three of the groups sections and the attached Explorer unit, it seems to me that we still deliver a quality scouting experience for the young people rather than just for the boys (we visited the US with the troop in 2010 and having girls with us didn't seem to cause any anguish). The local Guide groups haven't complained that we are poaching their girls.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[00Eagle]

qwazse & BadenP,

 

There was a precedent (~1954) for an alternative path to Eagle for explorers skipping first class for Bronze award explorers. http://www.seniorscoutinghistory.org/seniorscoutsite/explorers.html

 

If Boy Scouts were to become co-ed, I could see granting credit for Outdoor Bronze as equivalent (actually it's harder) to first class for a Bronze -> Star -> Life -> Eagle progression.