Beavah Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Yah, I once heard a friend tell me that his uncle said that a kid he knew from scouts told him that a fellow said to another guy... Nah, I'm not goin' to judge a fellow scouter based on 5th-hand hearsay like that. I do agree with VeniVidi wholeheartedly, though. We want boys to learn things because learning is fun and worthwhile, and to Be Prepared. We want lads to pay attention because a Scout is Courteous and because that's how yeh help the patrol succeed. We recognize kids who learn those lessons with awards, but if we're tellin' 'em to do it for the award then we'll never achieve our real aims of developing character. Character is what yeh do when yeh don't expect an award. Perhaps the real issue here is that instead of the SPL tryin' to address a whole big group, the troop needs to think about Patrol Method and have the PLs working with smaller groups with tighter social connections. Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 My gosh, does anyone here know how to relate to scouts? From Badon Powellspeaking of Scoutmasters He must have the boy spirit in him; and must be able to place himself on a right plane with his boys as a first step."" I once had an SPL who wanted a few scouts to act better during the Troop openings, so he rewarded good behavior with candy. You think Im going to throw water on my SPLs proactive effort because instant gratification rarely works in developing the character trait of respect and patience. I knew we would have discussions in the future as he tried other ideas, but I was very proud of the SPL's initiative as am I of the SPL in this discussion. The SM in this discussion is encouraging mediocrity and I think we have had enough of that kind of encouragement in todays world. >>Come on guys... we're really going to get hung up on an SPL calling his peers "guys"... sheesh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 So is the issue in the OP the spl calling the scouts guys or the SM chastising him and saying that not all the boys are eagle material??????? I think the second is more significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I say let the SPL do his SPL thing. They say a lot worse than that due to inexperience or temperament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 What??? Did I miss a memo? Has "guy" been redefined? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoPenn Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 So what's the age range of the guys he was talking to? If were talking older Scouts close to aging out that aren't even Life yet, what the SM said applies - but if we're talking about a group of guys 15 and under, then the SM is out of line and should be replaced by the COR immediately for not having the ability to understand that EVERY SINGLE SCOUT CAN BE AN EAGLE, IF THEY WANT TO BECOME AN EAGLE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Man! Am I barking up the wrong tree here. I tell everyone of my new boys that if they apply themselves, listen, learn and roll up there sleeves there is no reason they can't be Eagle. I then go on to tell them all the fun they're going to have along the way. Then I cite a couple of examples of boys that did just that and made it to Eagle, even if it was the day before they turned 18. Was that pie-in-the-sky? Probably, but I wasn't going to admit that to all these avid new scouts just starting out on their scouting journey. I never ran an Eagle Mill program, but my boys all achieved far more than they ever expected to. I went back into Cubbing to pick up Webelos II dens and brought them over into Boy Scouts. Did it twice and of the 11 boys in those two dens 9 Eagled. One boy came to me at his ECOH and told me personally that except for his dad, I was the only adult male that had been with him the most and supported him in a lot he did, even outside of Scouting. Even as ASM I received mentor pins. I expected the best and for the most part that's what I got out of these boys. Did all the hundreds of boys that passed through my arena of influence receive Eagle? No, but they all at least had the chance. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Tree Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Is that OK to tell an SPL? He can't encourage kids to be eagle scouts? No, I certainly wouldn't say this to an SPL. That's crazy. I might work with my SPL to try to find better ways to encourage the guys, because I do agree that this is not necessarily the most effective encouragement, but I would never jump on his statement like that. He's welcome to encourage people to learn things, to become Eagle Scouts, and even to call them "guys". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC9DDI Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Sounds like a ridiculous statement for an SM to make... almost too ridiculous. Makes me wonder what else the SPL said, what else the SM said, what type of situation the unit is in, etc etc. You know, all that stuff that got lost in the game of telephone between what the SM said and what we read about here. Do we really want to be suggesting that the SM be "removed immediately" based on this flimsy report of a report of a report on one-sentence sound bite, devoid of any context or history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutingagain Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Jeeper folks, I read the "guy" comment as one with tongue firmly planted in cheek. As far as the rest of it goes as Beav notes we have 3rd or 4rth hand information here. No way to understand the context or what was really said. It could very well have been that the SM was trying to coach the SPL on how to encourage the scouts to learn stuff without having to link everything to Eagle. We just don't know. And I'm inclined to give a well meaning volunteer the benefit of the doubt. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutfish Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 WHOA! I was totally kidding about the SPL using the term "guys". That example is just as rediculous as the Sm telling the SPL not to tell the scouts they can be an Eagle one day. Hey, lets call the SM and tell him that he should petition the schools to keep teachers from telling kids they can go to college. Or maybe we shouldn't talk to our kids about moving out and getting a job and getting married one day. Maybe we should just drop the whole "Just say no to drugs" idea while we are at it because, well ....lets face it.... some people will get addicted to medicines that were prescribed to them or will become alcoholiocs due to heredity. Matter of fact - let's just stop encouraging anybody from doing anything good since it's just not possible that they ALL can succede! Again, I cannot believe the lack of tact or brains of this SM . The job is to encourage , not encourage all. Some people beat all odds. And "can" is not the same as "WILL" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Do we really want to be suggesting that the SM be "removed immediately" based on this flimsy report of a report of a report on one-sentence sound bite, devoid of any context or history? Who is suggesting that? What we want, is to understand how our slips may bother the guys and make them feel unwelcome in their positions of responsibility. It is possible to "over coach" an SPL or a crew president. I do it all the time, and manage to apologize for it most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC9DDI Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Qwaze - I believe CalicoPenn made that suggestion. Otherwise, excellent point about over-coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I hear my guys call girls "dudes" so I think anything is better than "you people". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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