Sheath Knives in Scouting

[TAHAWK]

I heard today - AGAIN - that "national Boy Scouts bans sheath knives."

 

B.S.A. never prohibited sheath knives but "did not encourage" "large sheath knives" -- except for fishing.

The stated rationale was that "large sheath knives" are clumsy and unnecessary. That left room for judgment by local Scouters.

 

In 2007, B.S.A. started selling the B.S.A. Complete Guide to Wilderness Survival. Two copies where on the shelves at the local [b.S.A.] Scout Shop last Tuesday. That book advocates use, at least in the wilderness, of very large knives - bolos and khukuris.

 

In June, 2008, Boys Life answered the following question with the following opinion:

 

"Q. Im going on a camping trip with my troop, but my hunting knife broke. I see a lot of different hunting knives advertised. How do I know which one to buy?

Knifeless Neil, Summerville, S.C.

 

A. The best type of knife for camping trips and most any other outdoor activity, for that matter is a short, fixed-blade knife with a beefy handle. Folding pocketknives can fold up on your hand while cutting. Not fixed blades. And remember: When it comes to blades, bigger isnt always better. Avoid blades longer than four inches. A small, sharp blade can cut just as well as a long one, but its safer to handle and easier to maneuver in tight spots. With a good fixed blade youll be set for most anything the outdoors can throw at you whittling, cutting, notching, butchering, filleting, even spreading peanut butter."

 

The Guide to Safe Scouting was amended in 2011 to include the following statement: "We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility."

 

So when you hear that B.S.A. bans sheath knives, set 'em straight. There are enough real rules we have to follow without inventing more.

 

Now we need to get teaching about fixed-blade knives back in the Handbook, back in Tot 'N Chip, and into IOLS so we can do our "duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility."

 

[qwazse]

I'll add this to a number of things to be prepared to call "BS" on.

 

But, I have only seen this discussion in these forums. Must be in SW PA one doesn't come between a boy and his knife.

[Eagle92]

TAHAWK,

 

Yep you are 110% correct. But some local jurisdictions have banned fixed blade knives. Cary. NC is one of them, and their are others around.

 

 

I wonder how restaurants, school cafeterias, etc get around the ban in Cary

 

 

[TAHAWK]

In theory, no "knife" with a blade 2.5" or longer may be possessed in any "public place" in the City of Cleveland, Ohio. There is a fine and mandatory jail sentence for violation. This ordinance, an interpreted by the courts generations ago and if enforced, would bar knives used by customers at restaurants (all I should think - even McD's), not to mention the restaurant kitchens and the stores that supply them. My gentle Swiss Army Knife fails the test by 3/16".

 

As for local option bans within B.S.A., my council's two-year old total ban on fixed-blade knives just went away with the paid Scouter who came up with it.

[Scoutfish]

They get around it easily:

 

knives at the table are utensils, knives in a kitchen are kitchen cutlery ot cooking utensils.

 

Knives in a sheath on a persons side are evil weapons of mass murder and mayhem!

 

It's like police do: You ever hear of somebody being arrested for...get this....resisting arrest?

 

So if they are being arrested for resisting arrest - what was the original arrest..that they were resisting...for?

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

This is silly. Why ban sheaths?

 

A sheath isn't a hazard, it's a safety precaution.

 

If we want to nano-manage what personal equipment scouts carry, it'd be more sensible to require that knives have sheaths rather than prohibit it.

 

[raisinemright]

We are at a district campout a few weeks ago. One of the adults at a station commented to my son that he shouldn't be carrying a small sheath knife. He had just been to "training" and they told him sheath knives weren't allowed in Scouts.

 

We had a nice converssation but I told him that BSA didn't outright ban sheath knives, just that they didn't really recommend them. I told him sheath knives were one of many scouting urban legends. He understood and agreed.

 

I also asked my son to conceal the sheath knife.

[Beavah]

I also asked my son to conceal the sheath knife.

 

Yah, hmmm... so now the lad is carrying a concealed weapon, eh?

 

Better to have it out and obvious rather than concealed. No need to conceal anything that's perfectly proper.

 

B

 

[Stosh]

A buck knife in a belt holder is a sheath knife.

 

A Leatherman in a belt holder is a sheath knife.

 

I think they are only referring to fixed blade sheath knife of which the three in this example are the safest.

 

A buck knife has to be taken out of the sheath, opened and locked.

 

A Leatherman is the same except one has to look around for a while to see which is the blade.

 

The fixed blade comes out of the sheath and is ready to go. They have had to draw it out by the handle, the only way to get it ready and they never have to touch the blade for any reason. Unlike the Buck and Leatherman which need handling of the blade necessary to make it functional.

 

After almost 50 years of wearing and using sheath knives while camping, hunting and fishing, I have never cut myself with it. On the other hand (no pun intended), I can't say the same for my pocket knife.

 

Stosh

[MoosetheItalianBlacksmith]

there are pros and cons to fixed blade knives vs. folding knives. you plans with it or primary use for knife will help determine which knife you want to bring. Some camps and Troops have ban fixed blade knives. I find this to be foolish. its not the tool thats the issue it whos weilding it. We like to teach Wittling wich many people will tell you is easier with a fixed blade knive.

 

there are debates on knives that have been going on forever and i dont see them stoping soon.

 

But i have my fathers original BSA knife. Its a Fixed blade sheath Knive.

[Eagle92]

Don't remember if it was on this site, MYSCOUTING.ORG's discussion boards before they shut them down, of it it might have been on scouting mag's facebook page, but somehow the topic of sheath knives as dangerous weapons came up and how they can hurt someone.

 

I mentioned that a sharpened pencil could kill someone if it hits the right spot, but we don't ban pencils.

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

"...but we don't ban pencils."

 

Not even sheath pencils?

[Eagle92]

I just remembered another conversation of a similar nature on ScoutStuff's facebook page.

 

When they came out withe MB sash pin, I said it was the most ridiculous thing I heard of as a simple safety pin can solve the problem. Some mom made the comment that a scout might stick himself with a safety pin and hurt himself. I replied," we teach them how to use knives, axes, and saws, I think they can handle a safety pin safely." or words to that affect.

 

SOOOOOOOO if we teach Scouts how to use an axe, there can't be a ban on other sheathed tools.

[Eagledad]

You can blame Rambo for the restrictions, or perception of restrictions. Fix blade knives were a somewhat accepted, if normal piece of scout equipment before the movie. But they got much more popular and bigger after the movie. They weren't more dangerous, just more in the publics face during a time when scouting was trying to loose the military persona. So units started restricting the bigger knives, but as these things go, the restrictions got carried away and here we are.

 

Of course as technology improved, it was found the meek lazar gun was even more dangerous than the mighty fixed blade sheath knife, but that is another story.

 

Barry

[Scouter.]

EBay...Scout Knife

 

Although BSA does not sell sheath knives now...they sure as heck have in the past. There are a boat load of the out their (Official BSA Sheath Knives) that are up for sale.

 

Safe...that depends on a Scouts training (not to mention local rules and laws) but it does not appear that BSA has ruled against them (explicitly).