Being a target

[Scoutfish]

"Don't you worry your pretty lil' mind,People throw rocks at things that shine..."

 

That's a line from a song that country singer Taylor Swift has playing on the radio right now - in case you haven't heard it.

 

So, noname brought up a great point: How do you get adults to step up and help out/ help promote something or anything?

 

But let's be honest with ourselves....what do we say or do when adults do step up and offer to help out or even present a fresh new idea?

 

Do we give those thoughts and ideas a open and unbiased honest look, or do we just pick up rocks and start tossing them at the help and ideas?

 

Now, I am not talking about obvious cases of rule violations, or ideas that are completely at odds with the ideals of the program.

 

Sometimes, we need something to bring some pep back to the program, but we knock any and every idea that isn't just like what we have always done( which is part of why things get stale in the first place right?)

 

 

Small example: When our pack would go den camping, it seemed like it was just a big weekend long den meeting. Scouts were just dragged from one thing after another after another, with a couple breaks to eat adult menus.

 

Leaders forgot to have fun stuff just for the sake of having fun.

 

It took me two years, but now campouts are about CAMPING and exploring, and having fun. If a den wants to work an A activity or finish one up...great! But as CM, I started hijacking planning and events . We started having free time. We started playing kickball, softball, and doing things besides sitting and hearing the DL's go blah blah blah...

 

The menu was geared to the age/mind set of the scouts instead of adults who wanted thier own "getaway weekend" courtesy of the pack. No more cooking 17 boston butts all day or cooking a 250 pound hog on a pig cooker. Now it's hot dogs, cheseburgers and chicken nuggets - bring your own steak and I'll cook it while I'm working the grill, but the pack isn't going to provide it for you.

 

We started having a less rigid schedule and marching boys around like they were in military reform school.

 

More free time, more activities the boys enjoyed.

 

So, I'm not saying I'm a shining super star or even close, but I did come up with diferent and fresh ideas.

 

At first, long time parents and long time leaders threw rocks and hollered and protested and didn't like that we were doing things different from what we always did before.

 

But I didn't give up, I didn't back down. I took my position for the benefit of the scouts, not the adults.

 

I might have overstepped my "authority" - if you want to even call it that - to see some changes.

 

But our camping attendance has gone up, we have more adults ( who enjoy ) helping out than ever before, and kids spend the next month or two talking about what they did while camping.

 

Leaders are starting to see this as fun instead of just a job. They are being more creative and thinking outside of the box. Den attendance is going up, boys are progressing more and we are passing out more ranks, awards, and beltloops at pack meetings.

 

 

So, long story short:

 

When adults do step up to help out, do you let them shine or do you throw rocks at them?

[Basementdweller]

When adults do step up to help out, do you let them shine or do you throw rocks at them?

 

It is all about the personality of the Adult..........

 

Had a cub dad show up at a Pack camp out in a state park and hand out sling shots to all the boys.....So boy darts past with a sling shot in hand ready to shoot his den mate.....whoooooa stop right their......A few questions, I gather up the sling shots and hand them back to dad and explained the rules plus the fact we were in a state park.

 

Little later dad gives jr and a couple of his buddys paintball guns....same deal.....get them back to dad and tell them to put them away.......

 

At this point I ask dad what else do you have in the trunk....Well bb guns, 22's and a couple of handguns.......So I tell him to leave anything that shoots, goes bang or launches a projectile in the trunk, Just isn't allowed by boy scout and state park rules.

 

Well just before dinner I hear thunk, thunk........Dad and Wolf scout are using a hatchet to cut wood......whoooa again..... of course he has a big line of boys ready to use the hatchet and ax.....

 

Pull dad aside again and explain that the boys aren't supposed to use and ax until Boy scouts..... But if your going to do it with your son we need to set up an ax yard.....So I go to my truck to get the rope.....by the time I get back he is tearing down his tent and with out a word they leave never to be seen again......Spoke with his wife and she said that cub scouting wasn't tough enough for dad and there were too many rules.

 

So were those rocks????

 

Despite the cub camping sheet with rules for the campout that specifically mentioned no firearms or projectile weapons, dad still brought them????????

 

Should Violator dad after the slingshot incident refrained from bringing out anymore guns???? he should have met me half way.

twocubs.....suggested why does everything need to happen under the banner of Boy Scouting......My son's friends who just also happen to be members of his patrol have played lazer tag, paintballing, shooting guns other than 22 rifles, Movies that aren't G or PG rated. All this outside of scouting....

 

I also contend that what about the boys from single parent households that also have a number of younger siblings.......They are also primary care givers to these brothers and sisters.....They do not have a chance to be a boy except in scouting.

 

Fish, as you have stated new parent comes with an idea that violates the G2SS is obvious......But I am thinking that the issue is more basic than that......

 

New Dad's first camping trip with the troop. New Dad is forced to camp with the adults and not with scout son......New Dad is forced to not help scout son pitch tent or cook dinner.....New Dad is forced to slow down and may view the outing as a waste of his time.

 

Some folks do better than others with letting go........and that is what we are talking about....

 

 

Far as planning big trips and such, most of my people never ever leave about a 10 square mile area...They were born here, live two blocks from where they were brought home from the hospital, still attend the their high school sporting events......

 

So other than hey lets take the troop to myrtle beach or lets take them to the gun show.....We rarely have any suggestions from parents.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scoutfish]

I have no doubt there are many, many varying degrees of what peole see or do.

 

We had a dad who brought firecrackers - and after we said "NO!" - made a reference to us being a bunch of pantywaists!

 

But I also watched as an ADL how a couple parents were treated. The DL and his overbearing wife decided on which 12 of the 24 Bear acheivements that the den would cover. Nothing wrong with that at all. But when a few parents ( who stepped up and assisted all the time ) asked about a minor detail or suggested a change - which really was a better idea - they get that cold stare and you could here a pin drop.

 

At planning meetings, somebody could bring up a suggestion or idea about...anything...and the entire committee would stop in the midle of whatever they were doing and give incredulous looks to the person making the suggestion.

 

 

Then they would make statements to the fact that the parent knew nothiung, had no idea how anything worked and either they did what was asked or stepped away.

 

Cold stares and cold shoulders.

 

Then the same committee would wonder why nobody ever wanted to help out.

 

No, I'm not suggesting that every idea that everybody ever comes up with should be followed. I just saying that sometimes, a fresh perspective IS NEEDED.

 

And there is a way to turn down ideas tactfully too.

 

My only point is we have to look at ourselves also when looking at why we need help and why we have problem with getting help.

 

Funny thing about most people with tunnel vision is that they do not know they have it.

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Both Basement and Scoutfish make excellent points.

 

BSA suggests that people be ASKED to do tasks, rather than allowed to volunteer to do tasks. If the unit leader defines the task that needs to be done, it should help to avoid the problem Basement raises of people creating dangerous program activities.

 

Personally, I hope I'm on the lookout for fresh ideas. I tend to repeat good ideas too often until they become stale.

 

I agree it's real easy to be too negative with new volunteers. They do need to be encouraged.

[Second Class]

New scout parents (non Cub Scout families), just like parents of Webelos that have bridged in need a soft touch to avoid the type of occurances that were detailed above.

 

Some think the GSS is just a wet wool blanket over FUN, but I'd challenge you or them to list the fun stuff you CAN do within the guidelines.

 

Some get hung up on one or the other things; I know someone who swears up and down that the BSA is a hollow shell, because of the supposed "no sheath knives" rule. (discouraged, I know).

 

What's the harm I letting New Dad help Jr. set up his tent and share it? In a few short months, the peer pressure from Junior's patrol will take care of that issue, and nothing need to have been said to Dad. And in the mean time, Dad is seeing how the troop operates and then may around.

 

And if the new ideas come up, air them out. If a group of new parents disagree with a Troop rule or tradition, it will give the SM and CC the opportunity to defend their position, provide the history of the rule, and perhaps have them come around. But just perhaps, the need for the rule left some time ago......(This message has been edited by Second class)

[Eagle92]

2nd,

 

This may be an extreme example, but I'll give it. I admit it's 3rd hand, but after meeting the Scout in question, I can see it as credible.

 

I heard a story of a young man you constantly had Dad and grandpa do a good bit of the camping work for him, i.e. helping him set up tents, cook, clean, etc. Some believed dad even packed for him as sometimes he didn't know what he brought on a trip.

 

After trying to have a conversation about the MBs he had earned, and he had a bunch of them, and not being able to answer elementary questions about some of them that I was an MBC for and him having no idea what I was talking about, I can beleive it.

 

Did I mention he was wearing both his Eagle medal and MB sash at den chief training?

 

FORGOT TO ADD, why do the SM and CC need to think about changing rules and traditions? That's the job of the SPL and PLC. SM and CC's job is to keep the parents from interfering with what the Scouts want to do.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

[qwazse]

The SPL doesn't need to be defending tradition to parents. (Bully for him if he can.)

He should be helping carry forward thos traditions.

 

The SM should be laying out new ideas, and many of them will come from the parents.

 

I take suggestions from adults constantly, I try to compile them so the officers in my crew can evaluate them and contact the adult about implementing them. For a driven adult I can see how this can come across as stonewalling, but it helps the youth maintain a say in their unit.

[CCbytrickery]

I love getting new ideas from parents! sometimes they see things that we can't (because we are too close to the situation).

Now, if it's a truly bad idea (against regulations, usually), I'll let the person know we'll discuss in committee--which we do, and then laugh it off.

 

 

Our campouts are more like yours--kid friendly food (spaghetti, chicken fajitas, etc), and we give them free time to just be boys. We added in a pre-Cubaree campout, where our Webelos work with our incoming scouts on their Bobcats (and we give the new parents a small taste of camping)..our Cubaree this year had over 1600 attendees, and it is a bit crazy--so having a laid back campout made things run smoother for the new parents at Cubaree.

We are now moving into the line of "everyone has a job in the pack" mode...doesn't matter if they teach the Tigers to carry the flag correctly, run the PWD raffle or make the Web 2's arrows for the AoL ceremony. Everyone gets a job.

 

All these suggestions came from parents, and we listened, took what we needed from them, and implemented them.