Boy Scouts Outings and Camp out....How many is too many Adults

[Eagle69]

At camporee two weeks ago we had 9 boys and 5 adults. Our adults go on outings because they enjoy it, most are parents of boys but they generally don't get in the middle of what the patrols are doing unless instructed to. If you have too many adults that are forgetting that their role is to observe then find something for them to do. Technically you can't restrict them from coming anyway.

[Basementdweller]

Having the drivers stay especially if the event is multiple hours away only makes sense.

 

 

So your Patrol activity is hiking......Do the adults go hiking with the boys or stay at camp?

 

So your Patrol activity is rappelling....Do the adults participate with the boys or at a separate time....

 

 

While sleeping and cooking separate is fine....there is much more to a campout or outing than just that????

 

The troops I have seen with High adult numbers, the adults line up with the boys to do the activity.....So instead of patrol of 6 going up and down the climbing wall in under an hour, it is now 10 or 12 people and it takes 2 or 3 hours.....or completely dominate a facility or feature.

 

Or the Backpacking trip with the patrol of 6 and two adults........Now becomes 10 or 12 which breeches back country etiquette and many land managers guide lines.

 

 

As many are aware, I was surprised at the number of scout troops on the Appalachian trail.... I was also astonished by some of the manners and numbers I witnessed. One group appeared to be a 1:1 ratio if not a higher adult to youth ratio. With one Troop exceeding 30 members.

 

 

 

 

 

[momof2cubs]

Eagle: the answer is yes, BUT they are supposed to have a troop guide that is an experienced/older boy. Don't know the details and don't much care. I told that story as an example as to why some parents just aren't comfortable sending their sons off without them. I'm not really gonna cause a big raucus over it since this happened last spring and my son wasn't even in the troop then.

 

qwaze: possibly. But like I said, the question is not really what are you gonna do to fix it but whether this is indicative of what this troop interprets "boy-led" to be.

 

For the record, I have ZERO plans to go camping with my kid and his troop. I don't really like camping and I only do it under duress (i.e. ridiculous cub scouting YPT rules). But there is the part of my that does have concerns. And I am pretty laid back. I would imagine that in this day and age a lot of those fears are intensified when one is a much more...say..."hands-on" parent?

[Kudu]

Beavah writes:

 

"Yah, I reckon that even with Kudu's magical separation of 100 yards..."

 

100 yards between ALL Patrols is how Baden-Powell designed the game to be played.

 

If Congress granted Wood Badge a monopoly on teaching soccer and football, then we would be talking about "Kudu's magical 100 yards of separation between end zones."

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

[Mr. Boyce]

I'll get jumped on, and knifed, for suggesting this, but I really HAVE to:

 

one of the best benefits of scouting for me as a youth was getting away from my parents for a weekend. Nice to just be on your own two feet.

[Basementdweller]

Boyce why would you get knifed for that??????

 

I am of the opinion that i am along because i am required to the be

[Oak Tree]

How many adults from your troop would attend? Generally speaking, we have roughly the ratio of one driver for every carload of Scouts. But it can vary a lot.

 

How many is too many??? We don't discourage volunteers, and it doesn't seem to make a big difference. We try to have all the adults camp in one location, and we only assign a couple adults to wander past the various patrols to see how things are going. This has worked out pretty well. The adults will usually hang out and talk. Often times it's possible to put the extra adults to good use - maybe offering other activities, or doing some advancement work with a Scout who wants to. I try to use it as an opportunity to recruit adults to take on other jobs within the troop, too. Camping trips are my best chance to get to know the parents.

 

At what point does adult participation in outings interfere with the program??? When the boys aren't able to actually make decisions because the adults are constantly there helping them to decide. I do acknowledge that there is some effect from the adults just being there, but really, the way we tend to set things up, I'd be fine with a 1:1 ratio, not that we've ever had anything that high.

 

Can we all agree that the simple presence of an adult alters the boys behavior? Sure, Heisenberg said so. Observing the boys alters their behavior. Now, if you try to keep the adults away from too much hands-on "observation", I think you can pretty much minimize the effect. An adult right there with the boys will definitely alter their behavior, even if the adult does nothing.

 

 

[Eagle92]

one of the best benefits of scouting for me as a youth was getting away from my parents for a weekend. Nice to just be on your own two feet.

 

In the immortal words of Nakne, " OH HECK YEAH!"

 

[qwazse]

The question is not really what are you gonna do to fix it but whether this is indicative of what this troop interprets "boy-led" to be.

 

Hard fact: boys do stupid stuff. (Like getting impatient and under-cooking meals.) They don't usually tap the resources at their disposal to avoid stupidity. ("Mr. SPL, are these eggs done enough?")

 

Other hard fact: it doesn't kill them. Usually doesn't even make them sick.

 

Piece of grace: usually someone notices (e.g. your friend's son) and won't let them live it down for the rest of their scouting career. This has a very strong preventative effect!

 

That's why I try to encourage moms to keep up with the camping, even if it's one weekend a year. Just to address your very concerns, and to see how they grow in discipline as the years pass.

[acco40]

Numbers are not the issue. If adults attend, a good Scoutmaster would give them assignments. If many attend, some of the assignments may be "go take a hike", "go scout out a good patrol location a few miles down the road", etc.

 

Adults who attend and do not comply with the Scoutmasters wishes are problematic, regardless of number.

[TAHAWK]

Council camps, even those established in the 1920's, have "troop sites" that cram campers together - adults and Scouts. (Anyone know of a council camp that would allow patrols to be even fifty yards apart? There must be one.)

 

I feel lucky to have spent forty of my forty-one years with troops that do their own, independent summer camp at least half the years.

 

The first troop routinely took over 100 Scouts to camp. If it was the council camp (our council's camp), two adults stayed the week. The tents were all pretty close. If that troop was doing their own summer camp, more adults stayed as Merit Badge Counselors. In that case, adults and patrols were all in sites separated as the space allowed - sometimes more than 100 yards, sometimes less. If no one yelled, you certainly could not eavesdrop.

 

The second troop always had lots of adults when it did it's own summer camp, almost all as Merit Badge Counselors. We usually rented a Scout camp that no longer was used for summer camping by the council that operated it. Each patrol had it's own "troop site" -- whichever one they picked. All were well over 100 yards apart. Adults ditto. When were at one of the many council camps we tried out, a slightly lesser number of adults attended (weighted towards dads of younger Scouts). They came as drivers. The council camps we attended were all many hours away. A couple of times, the camps were days away. We absolutely did plan for how to keep the adult interference to a minimum.

 

The troop I am with now is a adult-run camping club for boys. 50+ Scouts and too many adults at all times. "Too many" in the absolute sense (20+ watching every minute of every troop meeting) and in the sense that they just never stop playing the parent role. Last summer, seven troop adults were present every day at Merit Badge Camp. However, it was two who were outstanding. Boy did they stand out! They just would not shut up. One is a very active Committee members. She is always parneting. The other one tells anyone who asks (and some who do not) that he is the "Troop Quartermaster." He is also the World's Leading Authority. They kept up a nearly constant stream of advice, suggestions, comments, orders (usually yelled), and remarks. OK. it was not constant. It only seemed that way. It did tend to keep kids out of the troop site. ^___^

 

So what? I think the answer to the OP's issue depends on who the adults are (Do they "play the game"?) and where they are situated in relationship to the Scouts more than it depends on any magic ratio. Having said that, two would be better than any greater number unless they are there as MBC's.

[Second Class]

It all depends. Backpacking, certainly fewer is better. Camporee or car camping, all that want to, as long as they understand the rules.

 

1) only UNIFORMED leaders give direction to scouts.

2) Parents, leave the correction of your boy to others. (see note 1 above)

3) scouts do not enter the adult camping area. Period. (to much of "I don't like what my patrol is having for dinner, can I eat with you? "sure, son, we have plenty". NOT.

4) any adult can intervene to protect property and protect life/injury.

 

These being stated, a 1:4 or 1:5 ratio is good. I don't get ratios of 1:20 and higher.

(these are my rules, not the BSA's).