Clarification needed

[crafty4mom]

I have heard that a husband can not be a scoutmaster if his wife is troop committee chair, is this correct? I have not been able to find any where that says this is not so. What I have found is that there are problems with husband/wife teams, but what those are I do not know.

Our troop is in need of a new scoutmaster and my husband is willing to take this role on. The current scoutmaster is becoming very difficult for everyone to work with and does not want to be a disciplinary type person but believes that he should be a "friend" to the scout, so there is a trust between scoutmaster and scout. Many of the adults feel this is wrong as the scoutmaster is in this position to help guide the boys but also teach them right from wrong which we feel is a disciplinary type action. We are having quite a alot of serious issues with some of the boys and the scoutmaster will not deal with them so then it is up to our discipline committee to deal with these. This committee was setup specifically because our scoutmaster did not want to deal with any disciplinary issues.

We as a committee are looking at possibly replacing this scoutmaster with a new one but the only person who has step forward is my husband and I am the troop committee chair so is this a conflict or not? I need some help in trying to figure out if a husband can be the scoutmaster and the wife can still be troop committee chair. Is there anyone out there that has experience with this and would not mind sharing your experiences. Thank you for your help.

[scoutldr]

I don't know of any "rule", however, as you have read, it's not recommended due to the potential for conflict of interest. For sure, both of you should not have signature authority on the troop funds. What conflict of interest? The SM is charged with executing the program which is approved and monitored by the troop committee. The Committee conducts Board of Reviews, the purpose of which is not only to talk to the scout, but to evaluate the effectiveness of the program being delivered by the SM and his corps of youth leaders. Would a spouse be able to objectively evaluate the performance of her husband as SM? ("Objectively" is the operative term here). Also, for Youth Protection purposes, this may not count as "Two deep" leadership, since spouses cannot be compelled to testify against one another (Lawyers, correct me if I'm wrong here). Bottom line is, if you both can "objectively" carry out your duties, and the chartering organization approves, there is nothing to prohibit it, to my knowledge.

[dg98adams]

I have not encountered the rule you ask about in our Troop, but to avoid the issue, ask another person to be SM or ask some one else to take CC.

 

Your PLC can be charged with reviewing Scout behavior and recommending appropriate actions. If you have a "discipline committee" you may have problems with your Troop structure that need to be addressed before replacing the SM.

 

Good luck.

[EagleBeaver]

Husband and wife can hold any unit positions - SM, ASM, MC, CC, ... however they can best support the scouts.

A scoutmaster doesn't teach scouts right from wrong - that is a parent's responsibility. A scoutmaster helps prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices by instilling the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

Discipline used in Scouting should be constructive and reflect Scouting's values. It is one of the foundation pieces of the 'safety sandwich' in the BSA training, but discipline and punishment are way different. Most of the behavioral challenges in a troop can be handled by peers once they understand it's their troop and how they can appropriately address behaviors.

[John-in-KC]

Welcome.

 

There's no rule against it, but since the SM and the CC usually both can sign checks for the unit, it's not a good operating practice.

 

Real world, non Scouting example: A few years back, a good friend was President of my church. By his office, he's on the staff evaluation and compensation committee. His wife is our director of music, and she's on the payroll.

 

He did the right thing: Stepped out of the room for those discussions.

 

To me, the right thing is there's plenty of work to be done in a Troop, no need for H/W to carry the full burden of principal unit leadership.

[CA_Scouter]

Discipline is how you train a scout to avoid behavior that would lead to punishment.

 

You have a committee that handles that?

 

This is of course a loaded question. It seems to me that the SM may be trying to instill into your scouts the values of the Scout Oath and Law and he is running counter to your committee who is focused on punishment.

 

If the scouts are running roughshod over the SM, then that's largely the parent's fault, not his. The Committee also burdens some of the reponsibility because they are charged with supporting the SM and the program but I sense the Committee is sitting back watching and judging more than helping. Perhaps the Discipline Committee should be contacting parents and insisting that they counsel their own scout on acceptable behavior in the troop, perhaps even require the parent's attendance for some time until the situation is under control.

 

Now forgive me, I don't know all the details of your story and I may be way off base, but I wanted to present an alternate veiwpoint for you to consider. Maybe replacing the SM is not the answer, maybe replacing the attitude of the Committee is what is needed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hal_Crawford]

No rule against it that I know of but this smells bad on a number of levels. How many threads have we seen where the poster's problems stemmed from the CC and the SM (or the CC and the COR or the CC and the DAC) being too close (husband/wife, good buddies whatever) and this left no recourse for a scout having problems with Eagle or other issues? When there are no checks and balances there can be trouble or at least the perception of trouble.

 

The financial conflict has already been discussed.

 

The discipline committee smells a bit funky as well. I don't see a hint of boy leadership in the post. In my experience, when the committee gets too involved in a discipline issue it ends badly; often losing a scout because he is either ejected (sometimes rightly but sometimes not) from the troop or he quits after being suspended. Helicopter parents are often quick to rid the troop of "bad influences" when it is someone else's kid. Overreaction is not unusual when group think is involved. Scoutmasters often have a bit more perspective.

 

The thing that bothers me is that we have a CC who is trying to oust the SM and install her husband. The SM wants to "be a friend to the scout so there is trust between the Scoutmaster and scout". Sounds pretty reasonable. "Many adults feel..." How many? When I hear phrases like that I suspect that means "me and my husband (or wife)" and one one or two others.

 

If the discipline issues are serious then give us some details so that we can see why the SM should go. If there is a really good reason then I would suggest either looking elsewhere for a SM or resigning as CC. There is too much chance of a perception of impropriety if the CC and SM are husband and wife.

 

I can't help but suspect that there is a deeper agenda here. Frankly, Crafty's proposed coup d'etat seems a little too crafty for me.

 

 

 

[crafty4mom]

Thank you all for your posts. I am a teacher and am always trying to bring kids up to a higher level of having a positive attitude but I need to be more specific with the discipline side of this. I am not trying to put my husband in as Scoutmaster in fact I would prefer not to. We have a group of boys whom their parents choose to come to the meeting, sit in the back of the room, choose not to be involved, and they start bashing on the boys' who are what they consider "trouble makers" which these boys are not trouble makers, they just need more guidance then other boys because they are ADHD/ADD.

Our discipline plan is very leinent as far as punishment there is NO negative punishment it is all positive. What we have is for each issue that comes to the committee, they write up a plan which has to be positive plan to help the scout in a positive way. This has really helped a lot of our scouts that have made poor choices. The committee by NO MEANS is out to get anyone. It took many hours of looking at other troops plans, talking to social workers, princpals at the local schools, District people to make sure that this was a positive plan and would encourage the boys to stay in and continue on the path to Eagle.

What has happen is that the parents that sit in the back that bash other scouts feel that the discipline committee is unnecessary. But when their son, has to go and talk with the discipline committee, those parents are expected to come talk to the discipline committee at the same time. We have had some real serious issues that the Scoutmaster refuses to deal with and the prior troop chairperson also did not want to deal with so the committee was formed due to these two people not wanting to help guide the boys' in a positive way. They chose to just let it go and do nothing and there were parents that were pulling their son's out to go to other troops and this troop was almost to the point of collapsing and I was not going to allow my sons to be in a troop that was going to collapse.

The Scoutmaster that we have right now that I am speaking of does not want to do this position anymore but there are NO other parents that will step up and take over. When you have a Scoutmaster who does not care and it is showing through to the boys and the boys are picking up on it and running wild because of this then something needs to be done. There is no other objective here except to have the best boy run troop that we can have in the utmost positive atmosphere.

[NeilLup]

Hello,

 

I suspect that I know the answer that I will get to this question but it needs to be asked anyway.

 

Where is your Chartered Organization in this?

 

Ultimately, it is the Chartered Organization who selects the Committee Chairman and the Scoutmaster. If they have a problem with the SM and the CC being husband and wife, then that's the end of the discussion. If they have a problem or a position on the challenges you have mentioned, then their opinion should prevail.

 

I suspect your answer will be "What Chartered Organization?" or else "They don't care." But if they do care at all, they need to be involved pretty intimately.

 

You also should contact your local District organization and get them involved. If you have a Unit Commissions, get him or her involved. If not, then contact your District Commissioner and/or District Executive. They are trained to help you in situations like this.

 

If you have no idea what I'm talking about, check your local phone book under "Boy Scouts of America" or else go to the National website www.scouting.org and find out what is your local council. Contact them and ask for help. That's why they're there.

[ScoutNut]

If your trouble makers are not trouble makers at all, and are responding nicely to positive reinforcement, what are the "real serious issues" that no one wants to deal with, and are causing families to leave?

 

Perhaps if those serious issues were corrected the current SM would be re-energised, and decide to stay.