Cell Phones

[Eagle732]

Not really sure what it is you don't agree with. Is it the PLC's decision to restrict phone use?

 

 

 

 

[KC9DDI]

Eagle - Correct. I would have to ask the PLC essentially what I posted before in this thread - "What are we telling people by entrusting them with all of this freedom, responsibility and capability, while at the same time telling them that they're not responsible enough to listen to music in their tent? Is flat-out banning electronics really the best solution to the problem? Other than in the case of a severe safety risk, should we really be confiscating another Scout's personal property?"

 

Maybe the PLC will decide that it is in fact the best solution, given whatever unique situation is occurring in the troop. But I feel the situations where this would be the best solution are few and far between.

 

Of course, sometimes we do need to support the PLC's decision, even if we don't think it's the best decision.

[CalicoPenn]

Maybe most see this as an issue of having cell phones in the first place. I see this as an issue of appropriate use and timing, and best for the lads to start learning that now, is a friendlier environment, than when they are 17, working a part-time job at a retail store, and learning the hard way by getting fired that there is a time and place for everything.

 

Just because things are Scout-led, doesn't mean that the SM or an ASM couldn't slide up to a scout texting during a Scout's Own, place a hand on a shoulder, and suggest that the texting stop now. Nor should it prevent a leader sitting next to one of his Scouts playing games on a phone instead of paying attention to a meeting from quietly suggesting that the Scout stop playing games and pay attention, rather than sit silently by, possibly seething, for those two hours.

 

Being boy-led isn't an excuse for the SM/ASM's to abrogate discipline issues to to the PLC/SPL. Indeed, I would say those mild, quiet requests/reminders are less about discipline as they are about mentoring, and isn't that one of the main reasons we're there?

[Eagle732]

I think for some it goes way beyond an occasional use of a cell phone during an inappropriate time. It's almost an addiction. I have seen boys who constantly use their phones, mostly for games. The only relief is when the battery goes dead.

 

It's not just allowing a boy to listen to music in his tent at night, it's about respecting others. Respecting your tent buddy who's trying to sleep instead of talking on the phone late at night. It's respecting the DAC who's giving instruction on what's expected during an Eagle project and taking notes instead of playing games on his phone (by the way Mom took several pages of notes). It listing to the Chaplain's Aid while he's doing a service instead of texting your friend. None of this is in keeping with Scout Spirit.

 

I'm not big on banning things but if you think about it there's lots of things banned in Scouting.

 

 

 

[Kudu]

 

"I'm not big on banning things but if you think about it there's lots of things banned in Scouting."

 

Now you are on the right track! Ban campsites that require less than a five mile backpack or canoe trip to access.

 

Nobody, including you, will care about the cell phones.

 

[Platypus96]

I've always thought this argument was ridiculous. From my point of view, there is only one reason a scout would listen to music or play on his phone on a trip, and that is boredom. So you have two possible problems there. Either he is using it when nothing is happening, and it is entirely unreasonable to be upset at its use, or the program for the trip is not keeping his attention well enough to get him to put down the phone. I remember the first time I put on headphones at a scout function. I was patted on the shoulder, looked up, and another kid said "Really? You're gonna listen to your iPod while you're surrounded by your friends?" I took them off and struck up a conversation. Banning cell phones isn't the way to get rid of them; it certainly hasn't helped in schools. Instead, find out why the scouts are bored and help the PLC create better meeting and trip plans. And like Kudu said, if the boys are 300 feet apart, then the phones may actually be useful in communication (sorry if I misread that Kudu, i think its what you meant.)

 

Times change, and what we learn in scouting do too. My old scoutmaster used to love to tell us about how one of the first class requirements when he was a scout was to explain how to stop a runaway horse. Maybe someday kids will laugh about how they had to learn to use a compass, when now all they have to do is click a feew buttons on some gizmo. If every kid in your troop thinks that phones make camping better, who are you to tell them differant? Eventually it will go dead, they'll look around, and something will click for them. And that momement is what will make them love scouting.

Obviously though, no one would think less of someone who gave a friendly reminder that texting during religious services is not okay.

[Eagle732]

So I asked for opinions on cell phone use and it seems most here don't seem to think they are a problem. Quite different than the opinion of those who responded to the Scouting Magazine article where most felt that they hinder the program. Wonder why the difference of opinions?

 

Kudu, I'm not really sure about how backpacking and canoeing 5 miles to a campsite has anything to do with cell phone use.

Since this is a problem that my SPL has identified and addressed I think I (the SM) should care about it.

 

One other point. There's no concern about respecting others?(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

[Basementdweller]

Again it is something learned...

 

 

Just curious, at that same life to eagle seminar did you look around the back of the room and see how many adults were playing with their phones???????

 

 

 

[CHLees3rd]

Eagle,

 

I am a Unit Commissioner. If I was visiting your unit and you mentioned your situation to me, I would ask you what you think the real problem is and what your next step should be given that the PLC has already issued its edit regarding recent events? The way I see it, the issues are inappropriate times to use electronic devices and the complacency of the PLC. This is one major learning opportunity for everyone involved: the texting Scout, the SPL, the PLC, and the troop in general.

 

You as a Scouter want to support your Scouts especially the ones leading the troop. Your only tools really are Scoutmaster Conferences and Board of Review. Have Scoutmaster Conferences with the Scouts who use their electronic devices at inappropriate times that you witness regardless if the PLC confiscates the devices. You are not undermining the PLC's authority; you are just trying to get the Scouts refocused on doing the right thing before the PLC catches them. If you need to multiple Scoutmaster Conferences with certain Scouts about the same thing, mention it to the Troop Committee Members conducting the Boards of Review. Let them question the Scouts about not being courteous. The Board may not advance the Scouts at that time based on their answers. That would be a wake up call that really hits home.

 

The same goes for the PLC. Since it made a confiscation rule, I would make them enforce it. The members of the PLC need to understand that it is time to "put up or shut up." Making rule and not enforcing them is twice a bad that just ignore the problem because it shows that they really do not care. If you witness a member of the PLC not enforcing the rule, call him on it. The PLC members need to know that there are consequences for all actions, or in this case, inactions! Scoutmaster Conferences about meaning leadership and Scout Spirit are needed. Ask the Scout, "Why are you not enforcing a rule you made? What message do you think the Scouts get from you lack of enforcement? Do you think imposing a ban was the best option? Are there other ways to change the behaviors of the Scouts?" If the PLC does not follow through with its rule, have the Board question them during Boards of Review. The Board not advancing the SPL to Life until he improves his leadership skills sends a huge wake up call!

 

I would hope that the rest of the Scouts in the troop would notice what was happening and self-correct themselves before it was an issue. If so, then the troop will have less issues regarding inappropriate use of electronic devices and the PLC will be more thoughtful with how it run the troop.

 

Good luck,

Chazz Lees

[Eagle732]

There were probably at least 300 people in the room, I had 5 scouts, 5 parents, and our Eagle Advisor there with me. I was not looking at how many adults were using their phones, but none of my adults were. Since this event is put on by our DAC for Eagle candidates parents really don't need to pay attention since they're not doing an Eagle project (or at least that's the intent!). The DAC did ask that all phones be turned off during the presentation. Again, lack of respect.

 

So I asked everyones opinion and I've made my decision on how to deal with what I see is a problem. I will support the SPL and the PLCs "if I see it it's mine" policy. I'll also let parent's know that phones are not needed and are a distraction at Scouting events and discourage them from being brought. My cell number is on every permission slip that each parent gets a copy of so if they need to get in touch with their son they can call me.

 

I'm reminded of a discussion I had with a friend who is a SM who happened to be at summer camp the same time we were. He said Tuesday evening he had parents of two first year scouts show up at camp unannounced to take their sons home because they had called from their cell phones and told their parent's they wanted to go home. He never had a chance to talk with the boys about being homesick and help them through it. We all know the disadvantage to boys when they don't attend the first summer camp, both boys have since dropped from the troop. My SM friend now discourages cell phone use.

[Eagle732]

Thanks Chazz for your thoughtful response. I didn't read your post until after I posted my last thoughts but I agree with your advise.

I think we all just try to do the best we can for the boys.

[CHLees3rd]

Eagle,

 

I'm curious about what other things your SM friend did during the first few days of camp that may have led to him being blindsided on Tuesday? Do you know if he spoke daily with the new Scouts? Did he notice anything not right when he spoke to them? Did he speak with the Troop Guide and try to see if any of the new Scouts were feeling homesick? Does he think he could have been more proactive to prevent the Scouts from calling home for the parents to pick them up?

 

Instead of discouraging the cell phones, he might want to consider speaking with the Scouts and possibly having a really troubled Scout call home with him there to speak with the parent too. After the Scout tells of all his homesick thoughts to his parents, the Scoutmaster can give a truer picture of what is going on at camp. "I saw Bob at his archery course today and he was having a great time because he hit three with the blue ring and I saw him after he went to troop swim. Things are fine here. If you hear otherwise, feel free to follow up with me. Wouldn't want you to trek all the way out here for nothing." Turn the tables and make a negative a positive.

 

If he did try to keep his finger on the pulse of the troop and boys still left, then he did his best. However, if he was blindsided because he did not speak with the Scouts regularly, then it is a learning opportunity for him.

 

Chazz Lees(This message has been edited by CHLees3rd)

[Kudu]

Eagle732,

 

We all have our prejudices.

 

Obviously your mind is made up and you won't rest until an adult offers some creative way to bend "disobedient" Scouts to your will.

 

Eagle732 writes:

 

"Kudu, I'm not really sure about how backpacking and canoeing 5 miles to a campsite has anything to do with cell phone use. "

 

You won't be "really sure" until you try it yourself.

 

None of your incidents sound like rugged wilderness outings to me. Your profile says you like to backpack, so offer a remote "Backwoods Fishing" expedition where the outdoor Scouts determine their own electronics policy away from the SPL and the PLC. What's the worst that can happen?

 

I offered a URL of our Scouts backpacking with electronic devices:

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/At300Feet

 

So what was your gut reaction? Did you feel physically sick when you saw Boy Scouts that hike two to nine miles while listening to iPods?

 

I said we all have our prejudices.

 

My prejudice? Boys who do not love to backpack and/or travel to remote campsites by water are NOT Real Scouts.

 

That's right, I said it.

 

Yes, as a corporation our bread & butter is training Cub Scout Survivors how to become Eagle Scout "Character and Leadership" experts, without a single requirement that they ever walk into the woods with a pack on their backs.

 

So given our corporate Mission, I find indoor boys with cellphones on Webelos III campouts just as annoying as you do.

 

All I'm saying is that if a couple times a year you filter out those indoor boys with an expedition based on significant Physical Distance (and adult-free travel for the mature Scouts), the boys who sign up are your Troop's Real Scouts.

 

Real Scouts and electronics are not a behavior problem, unless your prejudice is such that my videos did make you physically ill

 

Eagle732 writes:

 

"Quite different than the opinion of those who responded to the Scouting Magazine article where most felt that they hinder the program. Wonder why the difference of opinions?"

 

My prejudice? Not a single one of those glossy magazine "trained adults" has ever met Baden-Powell's minimum standard for the Patrol System: 300 feet between Patrols, and regular Patrol Hikes without adult association.

 

Not once.

 

If Baden-Powell were alive today, he would have adapted many of his Wide Games to incorporate cellphones:

 

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/wide/index.htm

 

Baden-Powell's Scouting is based on rigorous games of strategy over significant Physical Distances.

 

Eagle732 writes:

 

"Since this is a problem that my SPL has identified and addressed I think I (the SM) should care about it."

 

Yes, it is remarkable how the SPL and you are of one mind. Especially since so many of your Scouts disagree.

 

My prejudice? If you suggested that backwoods expeditions should be exempt from the regular Webelos III campground policy, they would agree to that too. Problem solved.

 

Eagle732 writes:

 

"One other point. There's no concern about respecting others?"

 

Nope. Not an issue after hauling a backpack five miles.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

 

[Basementdweller]

ahhh the fellow who has a supporting comment is thoughtful.....

[Kudu]

 

CHLees3rd writes:

 

"If the PLC does not follow through with its rule, have the Board question them during Boards of Review. The Board not advancing the SPL to Life until he improves his leadership skills sends a huge wake up call!"

 

Lesson Learned: Don't Suck Up.