When is enough enough

[Basementdweller]

I enjoy the spirited discussion revolving around the Personal survival kit.......

 

But do our scouts need another kit??????

 

First aid kit, fire building kit, personal survival kits.

 

 

So when we go car camping why do we need a personal survival kit????? and when I go backpacking, well my survival kit is on my back.

 

supporting arguments against a separate survival kits

 

The boys in missouri, i believe, that were cut off while backpacking by a flood then "rescued" by helicopter. No special survival kit, just the gear on their back.

 

The boys in North Carolina that got separated from their troop while backpacking. No special survival kit...Set up the gear in their packs and ate the food they carried.

 

 

 

Car camping you should never ever need one.

 

On an established trail system common in most of the united states you should not need one. Your are within a couple of hours to a days walk of a highway.

 

 

 

 

So are we doing our boys a disservice by making them believe they should carry all this excess gear?????? And spend all this extra money????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stosh]

If one is to take seriously the BSA motto of "Be Prepared", one must always be vigilant of what they are carrying that could be used in a serious situation. With that being said, I never leave the house without such things as a pocket knife, clean handkerchief, belt, fingernail clipper, P-38 can opener, lighter, small flashlight, and knowledge on how to use them in ways not normally thought of, i.e. fist full of car keys as "brass knuckles" to use in self defense.

 

An education in "survival" always depends first on how one can make-do in a tough situation with what one has with them or can quickly gather up in a moment's notice. In my car I carry certain items that pertain to travel, at work I have other items readily available, etc. etc.

 

One can have all the tools necessary for every emergency and go around with a daily backpack of assorted items, but unless one has a basic knowledge of all their many uses, it is a total waste of time. Add to the basic gear one carries and the ability to "think-outside-the-box" and those few basic items can turn into a huge tool box of available items necessary to see one through a difficult situation.

 

Be Prepared is the motto, not: Have the right tools to Be Prepared. I carry a CPR certification card in my billfold. There are no tools necessary to perform CPR, and the card is totally useless. The knowledge of how to do CPR is all I need and I don't need a pocket to carry that in.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[packsaddle]

This is purely personal perspective but when I was a boy scout back in the 50s and 60s, one of my strongest memories as well as strongest interests at that time...was in constructing my 'survival kit'. I really took that 'Be Prepared' idea to heart and poured over the details of what I really needed to survive. I really enjoyed thinking about all the situations I might have to overcome (most of them wistful fantasies), and I always, ALWAYS, made sure my survival kit was well-stocked with my favorite snacks.

I have a fond memory of my mother attempting to stifle her laugh when as she went through my list. But that didn't deter me from my quest.

 

I paid a little less attention to the fire kit (which was really just part of the survival kit) and even less to the first aid kit (which should have been part of the survival kit but wasn't) because, I suppose, fire-making and first aid were more utilitarian and offered less potential for those wonderfully wistful fantasies I could think about in my mind.

 

Let's see, some string...how many survival stories could I spin in order to use that...???

 

My point is...in the mind of a boy who really loves this scouting stuff, I think the kits are a great way to cultivate the passion as well as the skills.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Twocubdad]

Pack's got it. The survival kit is really just part of the game to get kids interested and thinking. Most stuff our boys put in a survival kit are the sorts of things they would have with them on a campout anyway -- fire starter, first aid, cordage, compass, etc. If you're prepared to survive in the woods, you're prepared to survive in the woods.

 

I rather doubt any of our boys take their survial kits with them on any outing other than the wilderness survival campout. That's okay. The real kit is the one you carry between your ears.

 

For example, one thing I recommend the boys keep in their kit is a length of surveyor's tape to mark trails and/or your emergency shelter. Survival shelters, built out of native materials, are terrific hiding places. If you're asleep in your shelter when the S&R team comes by, they may miss you. We teach the boys to mark their shelters to help rescuers find you. The lesson still applies even if you don't have the surveyor tape, you just have to be a little more creative.

[Papadaddy]

We recently had a survival lesson at RT. The instructor, a scouter with military survival school training, told us about how he got lost in the Great Dismal Swamp. He had marked his trail with surveyor's tape...but to his dismay, found that many other people had also marked their trail...and failed to remove the tape on their way back out. It was of no help whatsoever. He eventually made it back to civilization, but never did find his bicycle.

[desertrat77]

Basement, I hear what you are saying about extra weight and cost. But it doesn't have to be that way. Many moons ago, as an older scout, I built a survival kit that I still use.

 

Container was an old canvas mil surplus magazine pouch (if memory serves, I found it lying in the grass in an abandoned housing area in Panama). I put in two cheap space blankets, a compass, a pocket knife, magnesium/firestarter bar. Didn't really spend much, most of the items were low-end extras that tend to accumulate over time.

 

I carried it in my pack wherever I went, and if we went on a side hike, or very light/no pack, I could clip the pouch onto my canteen belt and be pack-free, and not have a bunch of stuff rattling around in my pockets.

 

As others said, in addition to the utility of the kit, it's the concept that is compelling to the scouts.

[Eagle92]

I use an old M-14 magazine pouch as a survival kit. Light, not too bulky, and can clip onto the pack and belt. I have some "extras" that are not part of the 10 essentials in it, i.e. garbage bags, 550 cord, etc. Why do I carry it? To "Be Prepared." Does the wife laff at me when I get it and the 10 essentials together, often. Does it discourage me, not one darn bit.

 

You see I had a friend who taught Wilderness Survival at camp for a few years, then got a job at a national park one year. Long story short, he went hiking by himself, had an accident, and was alone on the side of a cliff in the Yosemite for a week. While he was in a bit of pain from breaking his leg, he was OK overall because he had his 10 essentials and survival kit.

[SR540Beaver]

Most of the Boy Scouts you read about getting lost while out camping........were car camping. Remember the boy in Utah who walked the trail from the lake where they were fishing back to the campsite and was never seen again? This was a short trip that just took a couple of minutes to walk and was almost a straight shot if I recall and there were people making the trip back and forth during the day. It's rare that you hear of an individual boy getting lost on a trek. One, you don't leave the group. Two, you are with a group that has maps and compasses. You might not know where you are temporarily, but you aren't lost. It's usually the boys on a car camping trip who decide to ignore the buddy system and wonder off alone that get lost. I'd venture to say that since no one ever plans on getting lost, they see no need to take their survival kit with them since they just want to try and catch that pretty butterfly they've never seen before......oops!

[TAHAWK]

Assembling a PSK, as noted, helps boys focus on survival needs - "priorities." As life is not without crisis, this is a useful exercise with application outside the wilderness.

 

Also, it helps teach that one may do more than hope to be lucky, as were the lost Scouts mentioned. Fortune favors the prepared -- that "Be Prepared" thing.