Holding ILS(C+T) concurrently

[qwazse]

Have any of you with hands in both Troop and Crew "campfires" held (or considered holding) Introduction to Leadership Skills for Troops and Introduction to Leadership Skills for Crews simultaneously?

 

The boys in my crew are good candidates for both, but training is a tough sell on a good day. They aren't going to spare two different weekends for two similar courses. The SM and I might be able to get a few key youth together if we pool resources. That could make it fun for everyone involved.

 

Thoughts? Ideas?

 

Parallel question for the patch-obsessed: if a boy gets ILST then multiples with a crew, how much ILSC does he need to earn a venturing trained patch?

[Crew21_Adv]

Qwazse and Fellow Scouters and Venturers,

 

Greetings! WOW Good questions!

 

I'll bite, and I'll provide my opinion from my perspective.

 

Specifically, with my Crew and Troop that I serve, and also other Scouting friends that I know in the neighborhood. All of our Scouting units are independent of each other. It seems like with all of the neighborhood Packs, Troops and Crews, none have the same chartering organizations or same meeting nights. We do have siblings between Packs and Troops. We do have a few multiples between Scouting and Venturing, but the units/committees/finances/COR are still independent.

 

Before ILSC, my local council has desired to conduct VLSC as a council event (to boost participation in Venturing). Each year, I would conduct VLSC within the Crew and then encourage my Venturers to staff the council VLSC.

 

As ILSC has come out and changed the format, I have discouraged this specific council level training event. I agree they should rally together for some council level teenaged fun & learning, but no longer a council ILSC. The nature of ILSC now is to have Venturers brainstorm and become leaders, not only to think about adventurous ideas, but plan, schedule, fundraise, and attend a crew program. I continue to invite any other crew to my crew's ILSC, but discourage my crew from attending any further council level ILSC. I fully support that a Venturer should attend ILSC within their own Crew, then highly encourage the Venturing Officers to attend NYLT.

 

So now you have a little of my Venturing/Scouting relationships.

 

ILSC has been with us for just over a year. ILST just this past Summer. So both training are fairly new. From reading thru both literature they appear to be the same.

 

Over a period of time, I usually see the younger Scouts 11-14 attending leadership training seminars (JLT, TLT, ILST). I would prefer better attendance from the 14-17 Life Scouts and Eagle Scouts, but they have homework, sports, or work, plus they sat thru the same seminar 3-4 times already.

 

The attendance of a combined class, may have 11-12 year old boys, sitting with 14-16 year old girls. Not a problem, just know that a class may have a variety of different maturity and experience.

 

Still over a period of time, I've noticed, the boys understand the patrol method. Duty Roster, KP, etc. Sometimes really good, sometimes fairly poorly. But they understand it. My Crew of boy and girl Venturers with occasional multiple registered Scout, have a difficult time with Crew method. Although the Officers are given backpacks and binders with the appropriate forms, the backpack and forms fail to make it out to events. My President (and past presidents) is usually re-writing the duty roster on Friday night, at a camporee, the KP falls apart, etc. They are good teenagers, but haven't had much experience with "the Patrol method".

 

On occasion, I have seen the everyone will cook and everyone will clean turn into mom doing the dishes. (I think Ive seen other forum discussions about helicopter parents); if I didnt need these parents for transportation, I would tell them to take a long hike. When I am in charge of an event, my Venturers follow a Crew plan that the create during a meeting. Although it always seems to be re-written (GRRRR!), but it is done by their elected officer.

 

That being said. After ILST, I would expect a Scout to serve as a Patrol Leader or Senior Patrol Leader (or any other leadership position). I would hope that I could sit back and relax with a cup of camp coffee.

 

After ILSC, I would expect a Venturer to serve as a Venturing Officer or Activity Chair. WOW, I would really like to sit back and enjoy my cup of coffee.

 

Seems like with my Crew, I have a lot of "HEY Mr Crew21_ADV! I need help!". I usually ask, "Didn't you attend the Crew Officers Seminar and our last ILSC?", as my coffee gets cold.

 

So, after all that. My thoughts are that it could be beneficial to combine a ILST/ILSC, just the way NYLT has opened to Venturers attendance. As long as you (and your neighborhood Scoutmaster) have open minds and different outcome expectations from the youth in the troop and crew, both during the class and after the class.

 

Further, if you have dual enrolled "multiples", if they are serving their Crew. If they are successfully planning, communicating, and executing a plan within the Crew. Heck yeah, they are leading their crew. I would definitely give them the Trained patch.

 

Good Luck and Hopefully your Scouts and Venturers become great leaders!

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[qwazse]

Wow, C21, it's like I have an evil twin!

 

I have nothing against council-wide training. Two of my crew taught the council ILSC this summer and one is likely to teach it this spring. However, my youth are not interested in council training for lots of reasons (distance, timing, cost). But, like your youth, they haven't built up the discipline needed to organize a venue for their crew. Unlike yours, more than half of ours are multiples with one troop, so what one unit decides likely impacts the other. I'm just looking to make it a positive impact.

 

Thanks for the encouraging feedback.

[Crew21_Adv]

Qwazse,

 

Greetings again!

 

Yes. They are a good group of Scouts and Venturers. (My Venturers need to lead and camp just a little bit more, to develop what they learn though).

 

I support council training, but has Journey to Excellence is now grading unit leadership training, (if a unit conducts ILST or ILSC), I desire my Venturers to concentrate the ILSC closer to home, which will increase attendance.

 

Then during Venturing gatherings and events, I highly encourage attendace at council Venturing functions. Just no longer the ILSC.

 

Hopefully it works well for you.. Just have different expectations out of the different age groups of Scouts and Venturers, that is my biggest advice/comment.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21_Adv

[KC9DDI]

Are you proposing creating one course that "counts" for both ILSC and ILST? Or doing a one-day thing where ILST is done in the morning, and ILSC in the afternoon (for example). Or running ILSC in one room, while ILST is being run in another room at the same time?

[qwazse]

Good questions KC!

Our units don't "count" stuff. They accomplish goals. They will tell me in no uncertain terms that fun had better be a major goal or the deal's off. School of Hard Knocks has taught me:Covering the same material twice is not fun.Being separated into different units for no good reason is not fun.(Like C21 mentioned, unruly 11-13 y.o.'s may be a good reason.)

 

So yeah, I'm thinking of one course from which a young man could earn trained patches suitable for both uniforms if he desired. (My young women seem not to care about patches, BTW. Nevertheless, if she's motivated, she would be welcome to learn the "nitty gritty" of troop leadership.)

 

Most of the chapters would be done in a common area with SPL and Crew President dividing responsibilities for instruction among Officers and PL's.

 

The chapters that are unit specific would be done in breakout sessions. Maybe at staggered times so that if a youth wanted, he/she could sit in on the other session. (Again, I got no problem if a young lady is interested in what is being taught in a troop-specific component.)

 

Anyway, that's where I'm leaning. But I'm also lazy, so I'm collecting a bunch of other folks' ideas here before sending my youth down this path!