When to call the law on your scouts????

[Basementdweller]

Soooo a little confused here

 

 

So in the thread I spun this from

 

Many would call the law for an older scout "popping" a younger scout in the chin. I disagree

 

In a thread a year or so ago, A boy scout gets caught with weed on a camp out and most would not call the law.... Again I disagree with most

 

So where is the line?????? In my mind the drug violation is more significant than two boys tussling.....

 

thoughts????

[Beavah]

Sheesh, people. The police and the courts aren't counselors and social workers, much as everyone tries to do their best. They exist to catch and to punish those who have violated society's laws. To administer Justice.

 

Yeh call the law when you have no alternative but to remove the boy from the troop permanently, and yeh feel he is such a risk to society that yeh feel it is necessary to potentially end his schooling, remove him from his family, curtail his future job opportunities and put him behind bars for da protection of others.

 

Otherwise, yeh handle it like a responsible adult who works with youth, eh? Yeh manage your program, involve the parents, and get the lad help instead of gettin' him a record.

 

If yeh really can't handle the sort of stuff that kids do without callin' armed men to back yeh up, then you have no business workin' with youth. Or bein' a parent for that matter. It's not the responsibility of society's justice system to take over as scoutmaster, teacher, or parent when yeh abdicate the role. Trust me, the courts are poor at this stuff.

 

Besides, while that officer is busy dinkin' around with the teenager that you've given up on, quite possibly someone else who really needs rapid response by the police isn't gettin' it.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Scoutfish]

"Yeh call the law when you have no alternative but to remove the boy from the troop permanently, and yeh feel he is such a risk to society that yeh feel it is necessary to potentially end his schooling, remove him from his family, curtail his future job opportunities and put him behind bars for da protection of others.

 

Nah, If I call the law, it is for one of two reasons: To stop something, or remove someone for the immdediate safety of others.

 

As far as ending schooling, curtailing future jobs, and put behind bars...well, they make that decision themselves. I am not tghe one who caused them to act that way, and I am not responcible for their actions. Therefore I am not responcible for where they end up either.

They are accountable for their own actions, not me.

 

 

But being in a more ruralish setting, I am friends witha couple law enforcement officers. We have one Wildlife Resource officer as a parent, and a county commisioner as well as two retireed officers ( one was a sheriff and one was a cop) . SEveral of our DL's are friends with, grew up with, or are related to law enforcement officers.

 

WE can have an officer come out and talk to people, give warning and also act as mediators during incients., Sometimes they come out just to back us up.

 

Not every phone call to a police offiver ends with an arrest.

 

Sometimes they do just come out and stop stuff. ( You ever watch COPS ? Not everybody gets arrested every time).

 

Of course, in my area, sometimes sheriff deputies will catch you doing some mischief and will take you to your parents instead of the jailhouse.

 

And trust me, that can definantly be worse than gatting arrested!

 

[Eagle92]

Depending upon local laws, sometimes a thing we consider minor may be serious legally. We had an incident at day camp once, and it was handled appropriately. One of our DLs at camp is also a state trooper, and he had a little talk about things with everyone so as not to single out anyone in a general manner. Problem solved.

[Beavah]

Nah, If I call the law, it is for one of two reasons: To stop something, or remove someone for the immdediate safety of others.

 

And again, if yeh aren't able to stop somethin' with children on your own, or removin' a child from a safety situation, then yeh have no business workin' with kids. That's what's expected of you as an adult in a youth program.

 

If yeh need somebody to "talk to" a boy, or give a lad a warning, yeh call their parents, not law enforcement. Doesn't matter a lick who you're friends with, or whether you're in the city or the country.

 

Beavah

 

[Eagle92]

I just remembered an instance when the law was about 5 minutes form being called. Scout caused some serious trouble and leaders wanted him gone form summer camp. CD and camp clerk have him in the office with all his gear and trying the contact info given to them. After about 2 or 3 hours they finally talk to dad. Apparently mom and dad went on a second honeymoon while junior was at summer camp, they were not leaving their hotel to pick up junior, and the camp would just have to keep him until they come back on Saturday.

 

CD figured out how much time it would take to check out and drive to pick up junior and told them "You have 8 hours to pick up your son, or I am calling the sheriff's department and telling them I have an abandoned teenager at camp they need to pick up."

 

CD, PD, and clerk and a few others rotated in and out of the office as needed. Kid was sleeping in a cot or a chair, the CD was at his desk sleeping, and the PD was in a cot by his desk when the parents showed up.

[Nike]

I'd call the police if the event was significant enough to involve them anyway, whether or not the kids were Scouts.

 

It's a judgement call, however, if you need to call the police on one of your Scouts, he probably needs more intervention than a Scout troop is prepared to handle. Sometimes Mom and Dad need just as much of a wake up as thier son.

[Eagle732]

Summer Camp two years ago the Sheriff shows up and carts away a boy who apparently threatened another scout with rape.

 

A few months ago during a troop meeting a sibling of a scout punched one of my scouts in the face for no apparent reason. Scout's parent was very unhappy. I called him the next day and discussed how I had decided to handle the situation. Parent told me that if I hadn't called him and he wasn't satisfied with how it was handled he would have filed charges.

 

As a leader I would be very reluctant to call the law, but as a parent I would not be so reluctant.

 

At what point does physical abuse between scouts become a YP issue and therefore must be reported?

[Twocubdad]

Seems like one of those pornography/I'll-know-it-when-I-see-it sorts of things.

 

Of course we all know we now have a lower threshold for reporting youth protection violations -- okay, maybe "lower threshold" isn't the right phrase, but we now are required to call authorities when we used to just call the Scout Executive.

 

I think there is a difference between us calling law enforcement as Scout leaders and a parent exercising their perogative to do so. In Trainerlady's parent thread, I would not have called LE over her kid getting socked in the jaw. But I would have done what I could to support her had she decided to do so. (Keep in mind that initially it sounded like "17" just out of the blue decided it would be fun to jack TL's son in the kisser.)

 

There would be a point at which I would call LE, however. As substantial stash of drugs obviously intended for distribution. Your run-of-the-mill tussle between a couple boy, no. But one that turned in to an aggravated assault, yes. Use of a weapon probably would.

 

I'll let you know when I see one.

[Tampa Turtle]

We have several ASM's who are cops. We have called on them occasionally to do "the talk".

 

Tough call. Once you call in the authorities you lose control of the situation. I have seen boys hit each other and threaten each other with a knife. They get the knifes taken, totin chits taken, and sent home.

 

I can see kicking a kid out of the Troop way before calling the cops. If you call the cops and the kid stays in the Troop it will really erode your authority with the other boys.

 

The Duct taping bothers me--it seems like hazing.

[Oak Tree]

We've had a couple of fights over the years - didn't call the cops in either case. I doubt I'd do it for personal marijuana use.

 

I'm with Twocub - I figure I'll know it when I see it. Assault with a weapon would probably do it.

[noname]

I would have called the law for the weed and the punch. These were not the 1st time you had problems with these kids is it? If us leaders got caught with weed at camp by the National scout policia would we still be in scouts? Maybe but our butts would be busted, Did the kid stop smoking weed? Doubt it. The duct taping knife thrower lemonade pourer, well he is the kind of kid I had at the Wilderness prison for 'difficult adolescents'camp. No one ever said no to him and back it up with action. You do that 1 more time and ....

[raisinemright]

I had a little incident with a municipal youth group I used to help lead. We caught a kid with some pot, disposed of it and set up a meeting with his parents with the intention of letting them handle the punishment, besides being kicked out of the club. The other leader was a cop but the kid didn't know it. He showed up to the meeting in uniform. Seeing the kid's look of utter fear, I had a hard time keeping s straight face.

[SeattlePioneer]

Interesting question.

 

 

If a youth is seriously assaulted by another youth or anyone, calling the police might be the smart thing to do.

 

Nothing is going to do more to discourage hazing and bullying than seeing someone arrested and hauled out of a troop meeting or camp.

 

A couple of years ago I was doing a hot dog roast at a small public park when a crazy (literally) old lady came over to claim she was a police officer and order me out of the park.

 

I called 911, and when the 911 operator established she was impersonating a police office they sent out a police response. They tried to minimize the situation by ordering her to leave, but when she told them she was arresting THEM (the uniformed police officers in the marked car) she was the one arrested instead.

[Cambridgeskip]

DOn't know if it's a different culture in the UK but I think the line is between where they are causing harm just to themselves or harm to others.

 

So with drugs it's a case of personal use means speaking to parents, potentially to child protection (depending on what parents are doing about it), if it's a scout event where it has happened probably suspension but I don't call this a police matter. Sharing with others, or selling, supplying etc, that's a different matter and police may well have to be involved.

 

Fighting? Boys (and girls) will some times fight, it's not to be condoned, but it's how it is. This is more of an elephant test. Often one will come off worse than the other but I think we all know the difference between two lads who have fallen out and exchanged blows, even if one of them does come out of it with a bloody nose or a nice shiner, and an outright assualt. I would find it very surprising if an outright assualt was carried out by someone completely out of the blue, I suggest that there would have been a history of very poor behaviour.

 

Exactly a year ago my troop parted company with a 13 year old boy. He had had a history both with us and at school of poor behaviour and had an explosive temper. I won't go into what happened but suffice to say he jumped before he was pushed. A couple of months later we heard that he had been expelled from his school for smashing another boys head against a wall till he passed out. Did it surprise me? Not really and neither did it surprise the school. These things are rarely one off events.