Handbook for Outdoor Skills

[LeCastor]

I am a voracious reader anyway and so I'm always looking for more and more books on the outdoors and woodcraft. Here's just a sampling of what I've been reading lately:

 

Woodcraft - Nessmuk

Boys Book of Camping and Wood Crafts - Mason

BSA Fieldbook 2nd Ed.

Camping and Woodcraft - Kephart

Be Expert with Map and Compass - Kjellstrom

Air Force Suvival Handbook

Complete Walker IV - Fletcher

National Outdoor Leadership School (NOLS) Cookery

AMC Guide to Outdoor Leadership - Kosseff

Last Child in the Woods - Louv

Sand County Almanac - Leopold

Anything by John Muir

Backpacker Magazine's Leave No Trace

 

I doesn't hurt to supplement the Boy Scout Handbook.

 

[shortridge]

[This post deals with copyright law. Skip it if you're only interested in Scoutcraft.]

 

RememberSchiff:

 

I think you're reading that section of the code incorrectly. The entirety of Section 107 lays out four factors for fair use that all have to be considered. You can't pick and choose. In addition to the factor you listed, there's also:

 

>> the nature of the copyrighted work;

>> the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

>> the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

 

The first part of 107 gives examples of fair use purposes which, while not inclusive, provide us with some guidance: "criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research."

 

(Source: http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.pdf)

 

And the U.S. Copyright Office gives two other examples pertinent to this situation:

 

>> reproduction by a library of a portion of a work to replace part of a damaged copy

>> reproduction by a teacher or student of a small part of a work to illustrate a lesson

 

(Source: http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html)

 

Thus, if you want to make copies of sections or pages from old books to hand out at your IOLS course or to your troop, that's generally OK - it's using a "portion" of the work for "nonprofit educational purposes." But putting the whole thing out there for the public to snag, even for free? Sorry, Papadaddy - I'd love the idea, personally, but that's not kosher.

 

As to Eagle92's point about how the BSA has put the current edition of the Fieldbook online for free: The format of the copyrighted work, or the fact that the copyright holder isn't charging for it, has no effect on copyright. It does not make it "open season" on the Fieldbook. And it especially does not open the door for wide distribution of previous editions that are still under copyright.

[packsaddle]

Continuing with the copyright thing, if you Google the words 'Fair Use' you will find a abundance of resources that can help guide you along the legal use of copyright and copyrighted materials. I use this every day in classroom instruction. Depending on the way it's applied in specific situations, it might also apply to the Field Book.

I particularly liked a comic-book-format guide that Duke University Law School put out on this topic. It was a humorous approach to making documentary films so it might not be easily applied here. It was fun to read though.

http://www.law.duke.edu/cspd/comics/

 

[RememberSchiff]

Good research shortridge. I missed that Pappydaddy wanted to copy the whole Fieldbook. I don't see a fair use problem with a chapter or two or three.

 

What I cannot understand is how there can be any "copyright infringement" of no longer published Boy Scout literature among Boy Scouts/Scouters where no money was involved?

 

Does anyone know of any copyright infringement suit by the BSA against a Scouter where no profit was involved? Patches, t-shirts, no longer published literature?

 

My $0.01

 

[shortridge]

I'm a little unclear what you're asking. Certainly, you can buy and sell or trade or give away whatever items you want, whether it be books or shirts. Copyright infringement enters the realm when you're copying the information and putting it out there in a form or manner unauthorized by the copyright holder. You can sell a used book to a friend, or give one to a Scout. The copyright holder gave the OK to a book publisher to produce it in that form. What you can't do is scan the book, reprint it and give it away or sell it, unless you have the copyright owner's permission.

[RememberSchiff]

The copyright owner is the BSA and aren't we all BSA? If the BSA is no longer selling the published material, why can't the rest of BSA make copies (no $ involved) to distribute among ...BSA?(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

[drmbear]

Someone mentioned the idea that Scout skills can be learned at IOLS. The idea of that makes me fall out of my chair laughing. I actually have no idea exactly what IOLS is for, because there was absolutely nothing of real value learned in the whole day they spent putting it on. I was actually embarassed that I had to be there to witness that. Okay, it is an "Introduction," not really a mastery class, but there really is nothing from all of that I can use to teach boys. I have my old Fieldbook and other resources, but mostly I am just thankful nowadays for all the things I can pick up on the internet for bringing things up to date, picking up new ideas, tools, methods.

[eisely]

Maybe I am missing something here, but I never expected either the Handbook or Fieldbook to contain everything one needs to know. The Handbook in particular is aimed at new scouts. I think there is an expectation that leaders, both adult and youth, will supplement the content as they think appropriate. I have been doing IOLS for over ten years now, and none of the volunteer instructors relies solely on the content of either the Handbook or Fieldbook. In fact we have several tables in the lodge covered with published resources of all kinds through which people can browse.

 

Nobody ever really learned outdoor skills solely from a book. The emphasis in training has to be on practical demonstrations and exercises in which the trainees can participate. Learning by doing is much more effective. This is the challenge for trainers. Coming up with meaningful demonstrations and practical exercises with limited time and no real guidance on how to teach, other than drawing on one's own experience.

[packsaddle]

RememberSchiff,

I was hoping that Beavah or NJCubscouter would respond to your question. If you will read the details of 'Fair Use' you will see that there are many factors taken into account. The non-profit thing is one of them but just because YOU didn't profit from making a copy doesn't mean that the copyright holder was not harmed. As a matter of fact ANY action you take with respect to copying that material that prevents the copyright holder from profiting from their intellectual property constitutes harm to them, however slight.

For example, if you made a photocopy of a chapter in order to take it with you on a backpack, that would not necessarily harm anyone unless you otherwise would have purchased a second copy of the book...unlikely.

However, if you photocopy a chapter and distribute it to all the boys in a troop, THAT might prevent them from going out and purchasing copies of the book and the copyright holder would incur the loss of sales that would have - but didn't - occur. Moreover, the way this kind of thing works, if there is enough such 'piracy' it tends to remove the incentive to create the intellectual property in the first place. In other words, if you want to make free copies of intellectual property, create it yourself and distribute it freely - that's what things like Wikimedia Commons is for.

 

As to the identity of the copyright holder for BSA, that is something that someone else would have to expand on but suffice to say that being accepted as an unpaid volunteer member in an organization does not thereby give you the right to 'pirate' the intellectual property of the organization.

Chances are that if you did photocopy a chapter, even the entire book, and give it to the boys, if they found out about it BSA might send you a stiff note demanding you to stop. I could be wrong.

But if you started making copies and distributing them for free to all other troops, say, through the mail, I think you might learn a lot about copyright that you never wanted to know.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[eisely]

drmbear,

 

You must have been writing your post as I was writing mine. It is unfortunate that you feel that you did not learn anything. Our IOLS trainees finish the weekend with an entirely different attitude, and perhaps that reflects something about how your particular training cadre approached the course compared to what we do.

 

I have to confess that I was partially motivated to volunteer to do training since I went through a very disappointing "scoutmastership fundamentals" training years earlier in a different council. I told myself at the time that I could do better and that someday I would do better.

 

Maybe you ought to join the team.

[RememberSchiff]

I guess I have not explained the situation well, so I'll drop it as I have already distracted too much from this thread. Sorry for the confusion.

[ScoutBox]

Have to agree with eisely. My course was good. And the past two I've been a trainer on were good. I do think that IOLS is more of a course designed to give the Scouter a better idea of what the Scout needs and is going through. I would need more then a weekend to train someone properly on outdoor skills. If you think that IOLS is gong to make you into some kind of expert then you are mistaken. Even the basic training the boys get isn't expert level. In fact you can take ANY Eagle scout, and I promise you he isn't an expert.. I haven't seen one who knows all there is to know about navigation for example. And I've had the chance to take some very advance levels of navigation. Still doesn't make me an expert. But I stay found.. anyway. I am currently organizing IOLS for my area, and the time restraints are crazy. But then again, this is more of an over view. Not a make perfect.

 

@Kudu: EDGE is a teaching method.. I don't understand your argument with it??? In fact you can call the EDGE anything, and it is still the same methods I've been using for 30 years. It didn't really have a name when I was being taught and first teaching. Someone came up with a kool name. Easy to remember. "Leader's Lore". Anyway, I can't see anything negative with using the EDGE Method. Doesn't leave out anything to do with the Patrol method. I teach using it, and so do the Scouts. it does work. They use it in their Patrols teaching one another skills. I've seen it myself.. so what's the problem... Nothing against you here Kudu, but you do realize that BSA isn't going to bring back any of the former techniques or names anytime soon. We don't have a chose. I use the older books. And methods. But in the end I use the EDGE to get the idea across..

 

 

[Kudu]

ScoutBox,

 

Maybe you have never Staffed the "Patrol Method" presentation of Scoutmaster training. The National EDGE experts REMOVED the Patrol Leader and ANY description of a working Patrol, and REPLACED them with EDGE.

 

Did I mention that this is the "Patrol Method" presentation?

 

The problem I have with EDGE is that no matter how many times I repeat that, people like you scratch their heads and say "Nothing against you here Kudu, but you do realize that BSA isn't going to bring back any of the former techniques or names anytime soon."

 

Sounds like a leadership cult to me

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

 

 

[Beavah]

 

What I cannot understand is how there can be any "copyright infringement" of no longer published Boy Scout literature among Boy Scouts/Scouters where no money was involved?

 

LOL. Yah, you and the rest of the reasonable people out there, eh?

 

Except that in the modern world of perpetual copyright, it doesn't necessarily matter if it's no longer published or otherwise an "orphaned" text. And the fact that no money is involved is not sufficient, eh? None of the distributed file-sharing cases being aggressively pursued by rent-seekers like the RIAA involves any money being exchanged between the parties.

 

Good research shortridge. I missed that Pappydaddy wanted to copy the whole Fieldbook. I don't see a fair use problem with a chapter or two or three.

 

Ah, but the rights holder and the courts quite possibly would find a fair use problem with that, eh? And indeed they have on occasion. If yeh look at it, the Executive Branch guidance for instructors is pretty tight, eh? No more than two pages or 10% for some works. And it has to be somethin' yeh select to teach from spontaneously for a short period, not somethin' ye use on an ongoing basis.

 

Most of us believe that patent and copyright law has gotten completely out of control, as paid lobbyists have pushed very hard for legislation to restrict fair use and criminalize the ordinary, common-sense behavior of average citizens. It has certainly been a windfall for attorneys, however. If yeh have the patience for it, read packsaddle's link and get a headache, then write your congressman.

 

Does anyone know of any copyright infringement suit by the BSA against a Scouter where no profit was involved? Patches, t-shirts, no longer published literature?

 

I know they've sent quite a few cease-and-desist letters. Yeh have to remember that there's three very distinct areas of IP law, and none of 'em really amount to "property" so much as temporary grants of government-protected monopoly rights. Copyright involves intangible creative works (literature, music, film, etc.). Patents involve tangible inventions (or at least they used to ). Trademarks involve business identity symbols and slogans.

 

None of 'em have a lick to do with "theft" or "stealing". For the first two, more like civil disobedience, eh? Ignoring or resisting government-sponsored monopolies that inappropriately interfere with the free market. For the last one, more like impersonating someone else.

 

By and large these things are expensive to both pursue and defend, so to my knowledge the BSA has not actually pursued many to the point of filing, and fewer still have opted to mount a defense. That's one of the reasons why the rent-seeking industries have lobbied to make copyright infringement a criminal rather than civil matter, eh? Because then the taxpayer instead of the industry would bear the financial burden for protecting the industry's monopoly.

 

Beavah

 

[RememberSchiff]

Beavah, thanks for the explanation.

 

Should be interesting when the Boys from National take me and my scouts to court for copying old Fieldbook and Boy's Life material.