Paddles and PFDs

[Eagle732]

 

I need to purchase new paddles and PFDs for our troop's 8 mixed matched donated canoes.

What type paddles (plastic or wood) and what size/length is common for troops to use?

What brand and type of PFD do you recommend? I'm looking at Type III.

Can you recommend a source to purchase these from?

 

[packsaddle]

I had to equip my fleet of 12 canoes and about as many assorted boats for college classes. All of my paddles have black plastic blades with aluminum shafts and plastic 'T' grips. This is a really common design and you can find them at WalMart and other places under different brands. Most of mine are made by Carlisle, I think, and have not had any problems over the last 4 years since their purchase.

I think the blades are ABS plastic which is very durable. The oldest paddles I have (from previous classes) are close to 40 years old now and still in good condition. However, I can remember, long ago, how paddle blades would occasionally fall off the end of the paddle shaft and if the boys hit the water hard, slapping it like a beaver tail, the blades would sometimes break. The problem of breakage was true for wood as well. But the wood is not as durable, and sometimes not as strong, as the aluminum and plastic construction.

 

I shopped around and found a good deal on paddles through Cabela's. But they didn't have enough inventory in stock for all I needed so I approached a local outfitter who matched the price and didn't even charge shipping. I can't remember how much I paid, though I think it was about $20 each. I do seem to remember that wood was about the same price, maybe a little cheaper.

For your unit, you also need to consider the diverse heights of the boys and try to match that with a variety of paddle lengths.

Also, make sure the paddles float.

 

For PFD, I chose inexpensive life vests (type II) which meet USCG (and BSA) requirements. I elected not to use Type III because they are considered to be a 'flotation aid' - the wearer needs to be conscious and able to keep their face oriented upwards. Type II devices give a small additional margin of safety to the user. You can find inexpensive life vests packaged 4 or 5 at a time in carrying bags designed for them. This time of year you can find them sold from lots of vendors.

Don't forget that you also need one throwable floatation device per watercraft and also an audible signaling device. I purchased inexpensive boat cushions which qualify under USCG regs and at a local variety store I found inexpensive metal whistles sold by the dozen (buy extras, they sink).

 

Good luck, stay safe, and have fun!(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[JoeBob]

Mohawk paddles can be had for $12 each if your buy 12 or more:

 

http://mohawkpaddles.com/Mohawk_8_Straight_Canoe_Paddle_details.aspx

 

I still have a couple that I found on various rivers, and they are fine for kids.

 

Like packsaddle said, Carlisle paddles are indestructible; but heavier. Eight years working as a whitewater guide never saw a Carlisle break, out of hundreds of paddles.

 

http://store.carlislepaddles.com/category/443233/Canoe_Paddles

 

I couldn't find any quantity deals, but you might call them.

Another oportunity to get a bulk rate might be to call a local outfitter and add your order to theirs.

 

My only advice for PFDs is to get something that allows ample clearance for arm motion. Some of the industrail strength flotation jackets will chafe if you're actually paddling and not just sitting still.

[nldscout]

For Boys just doing general canoeing The Carlile or one like is is the best, and they last forever.

 

We choose a comfortable Class III for PFD and bought some ClassII as spares.

 

I am curious about the statement you made about each watercraft needing a throwable device and an audio device. Where is that coming from? As far as I know the USCG rules only apply to Power Boats.

[qwazse]

If you can score a kayak paddle or too, you might find them useful for your gaurd boat who may want some extra maneuverability, our the newbie who needs a little help.

[ScoutOne]

Like nldscout mentioned, I would highly recommend the basic economy paddles sold by Carlisle (~$20). These paddles are very durable and light enough for basic trip paddling. Remember to order an appropriate paddle length, generally you will want paddles that reach conformable in the water, not toe-to-chin. So shorter than you would think, we use a lot of 48-52" paddles.

 

For a Type III PFD I would recommend something from Stearns or Extrasport. Stearn's Comfort Series Life Vest ($25-35) are popular with organizations. The design is durable, long-lasting, easy to put on, and the upper part is mesh allowing easier movement. It comes sizes S to 3XL. A few places may have the Adult Classic Series Life Vest for slightly less but it does not have the upper mesh (it does go town to XS). Some S/XS designs may still be too large for some Scouts, if you have smaller scouts under 90lbs you will need a youth size (such as the Youth Sportsman's Life Vest ~$20). I would suggest avoiding universal size PFDs as these will be way too larger for many Scouts.

 

Please do not order Type II PFD. So many lives have been lost from people not wearing or not wearing correctly. Untold numbers of lives have been spared through the development of the Type III PFDs.

 

Note, the USCG does not require Type IV PFD approved throwable flotation devices or signalling device. Your state may have different requirements, but I have not found this to be common.(This message has been edited by ScoutMKE)

[packsaddle]

"Note, the USCG does not require Type IV PFD approved throwable flotation devices or signalling device. Your state may have different requirements, but I have not found this to be common."

 

Here's the link to the regs for Maryland:

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/boating/pdfs/recreationvessels.pdf

 

Throwable devices are not required for Maryland (but are in this area). Audible signals ARE required in Maryland. Interestingly, visual signals are ALSO required on waters wider than 2 miles (I'm thinking 'the Bay'). I asked a buddy at UofM and he claimed that the 2-mile thing applies even if you're just skirting the shore (I think he may have had an experience with this technicality, lol).

Another note: ALL boys of ages less than 13 must WEAR the pfd at all times in the watercraft. Just having it in the canoe isn't good enough. (BSA requires this for EVERYONE. Tsk, tsk, I often see troops in canoes on the lakes around here and none of them are wearing pfd's...why do we even have rules?)

 

Edit: Even if you've done the BSA training, it's probably worth the time to take your state's boater safety course. As far as I can tell they're all offered online and usually there's a way to take the course for free, with payment only required for the certificate. The one offered by BoatUS is good but it takes a LOT of time.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Tampa Turtle]

I have always been confused on the Type II-Type III issue. The Type III seems to be more comfortable and hence folks leave them on. That is what we use most of the time.

 

We use the Carlise paddles and yes they hold up to a lot of abuse. We also have some nicer wood paddles that the older boys and adults will use--younger guys are too hard on them.

[Eagle732]

Does anyone require their scouts to provide their own PFDs? Considering how fit is important it seems it would make more sense to go this way instead of buying one size fits most or various sizes and hoping we have enough of the correct size to cover everyone. We could just require scouts to bring a Type III, properly fitting PFDs, most could probably borrow one. After all we go on bike hikes and don't provide a helmet for each scout, they have to bring their own or they don't ride. Never had a problem with compliance.

 

Troop policy is that everyone wears a PFD and must be swimmer certified.

As far as regulations go we will not be operating at night or in waters greater than 2 miles wide.

MD requires a whistle, it does not require a throwable.

PA requires neither (troop is actually located in PA, we boat in both states).

 

Lots of great ideas on brands and places to find a good deal. Thanks!

 

 

[shortridge]

One potential issue with having Scouts provide their own PFDs is that you have no quality control. A Scout who doesn't know any better might borrow a PFD from Mr. Jones next door, a clueless sap who stores his PFDs outside year-round, severely damaging the quality. If the unit owns them, your QM can make sure they're in good condition and stored properly.

 

Another option would be to see if you can rent them from your council camp.

[Thomas54]

 

 

If you have different canoes and we know you have different size boys you want to consider different length paddles 5-, 52, 54."

 

Some canoes have a lot of freeboard and sit high off the water, hence the paddler will want a longer paddle. But if you have a short kid in low riding canoe a short paddle will be required.

 

As mentioned earlier Carlisle make a very good match for price and quality.

 

 

Buy your self a nice bent shaft paddle. You will love it.

 

 

[The Blancmange]

>>>> Another option would be to see if you can rent them from your council camp.

[qwazse]

Does anyone require their scouts to provide their own PFDs?

 

Our troop doesn't have its own gear. But I have my own tandem kayak and some families have their own canoes, paddles, and PFD's. Regardless, when we go to the outfitter, they will offer to loan from their collection of PFD's at no xtra charge. (They fact that we are renting a bunch of canoes on off-season means a lot to them.) We spot-check and if one of theirs is in better shape than one of ours we take it and stow ours.

 

So, take a play from the outfitters, make sure your troop has a complete collection. The boys who take this up as an activity beyond scouting will eventually acquire their own gear.

[Eagle732]

After discussing with my ASMs we've decided to purchase PFDs so we can be sure the boys have good quality safety equipment.

We are considering Cabelas Adult Deluxe vest and Carlisle paddles. The vests go on sale in the spring for around $10 each. Cabelas has a "Government Outfitter" department that units can sign up for and purchase products for 10% off. The spring discount is a better deal though.

 

[eisely]

I agree about the use of Type III pfds rather than Type II. The only real advantage of the Type II is the flotation the collar provides for the head of an unconscious person. That is also one of the reasons the Type II limits motion in paddling. You will not be paddling in the kinds of conditions where people getting knocked out is a serious risk.