Camps.....What sort of Facilities????

[KC9DDI]

Are we talking strictly about Boy Scout Resident camps?

 

A pet peeve of mine, at any Boy Scout camp, is when the existing facilities simply are not maintained. I don't care if it's a three-walled storage shed with a dirt floor, or a multi-million dollar modern dining hall. If you're not going to commit to maintaining the structure, don't build it in the first place!

 

For example, a few years ago a camp in my council received a donation of one of those big "office trailer" things that you see used at construction sites. It made for a nice camp office, with room for a private first aid area, dry food storage, and a large office area. It was in use for several years, until someone forgot to close the door before leaving, and the door stayed open all winter. Needless to say several feet of snow accumulating and melting inside the trailer didn't help its structural integrity, and it had to be scrapped. All because no body CLOSED THE DOOR!

 

Different camp renovated a building to include a nice kitchen, built using a combination of material donations and FOS contributions. It was great for large district and council events, day camps, resident camps, etc. Except there was no money put into maintaining it. First the dishwasher broke, and was never repaired. Then one of the large freezers went. Then parts of the stove. Now, after just a few years, it's barely half functional.

 

[Basementdweller]

Council owned property designated as camps.

 

 

To me Summer boy scout resident camp is typically a program put on at a council owned camp

[Eagle732]

"Not talking program here folks...."

 

OK, then how about facilities to hold a high adventure program at?

COPE course, rock climbing wall, trails with remote campsites.

You know, something for the older scouts to do.

Oh yea, and flush toilets.

[boomerscout]

"A trading post that looks like it was built in 1842 and last modernized around 1924. Bonus points to put it on the lakefront with a cargo dock and a row boat that brings in "new shipments" every couple of days during camp."

[pchadbo]

What about these cub focused camps with theme build buildings, some with castles or timber forts.

Are they excessive???? too expensive?????

 

Our Cub World may be a little over the top but:

Native American Village

Waterslide

Minigolf

Rock throwing Range

Western style fort

Dining hall

Scout Store

Snack Shack with cool Shlushee machine

BB/Archery ranges

Waterfront

Pirate themed water/play area (Pirate's Cove is awesome!)

Webelos Woods -- seperate and private area for our newly minted Webelos II

Tents on platforms

Plus seperate facilities for on site Day Camp.

Oh yeah Kerrie, the nurse has her own lodge too.

 

Cost this year is 275 per scout for 5 days 4 nights.

A bargoon in my way of thinking

 

[Eamonn]

Basementdweller

I think many of us have a camp that we love.

For those of us who have been around for a while, we have seen and a lot of times helped make the improvements.

Many Councils have a core of hardworking guys who seem to live up at camp year round working away to do what they think will enhance the camp and make it better.

I'm not that handy or skilled when it comes to construction, I can drive a tractor, manage a wheel borrow and make a fairly good laborer. But I just don't have the time to spend the time that others do, so I'm happy to write the odd check and help pay for the materials that are needed.

As times change, the expectations of what is needed and what is wanted do change.

Campers 30 years or so back were OK with the out houses, I'm not sure if the young campers we have going to camp today would even use an outhouse?

The small creek wasn't big enough for swimming so the pool came. Then we needed a lake for boating.

I remember teaching rappelling when we had two tent platforms nailed between two trees. Today we have a rappelling and climbing tower.

The old camp office was a building built by the Civilian Conservation Corps back in the 1930's, it has been replaced by a new building that has A/C heat, offices, the first aid station and a fair sized room that can be used for indoor training. It's nice, but ran almost $100,000 over budget.

In many ways we are victims of our own good intentions. Add to that, that the squeaky wheel gets the oil and at times we allow someone else's vision of what's needed be the driving force.

Some of the best summer camps that I've ever had have been in a farmers field with chemical toilets and one standpipe for water, cooking over wood fires.

I tell Scouts that the BSA National Jamboree is the Disney World of Scouting but Philmont is Boy Scout Heaven.

The Jamboree is jam packed with things to do and different activities to try, but Philmont is a test of Scouting skills in the most wonderful of settings.

While I support our Council Camp, the idea of me having to spend a week there with a Troop is not something that I'd ever look forward to or ever want to do.

Maybe because it is too organized and the idea of Scouts running from MB class to class is so very foreign to me?

Still a lot depends on so many different factors:

Experience: Of both the Scouts and the adult leaders.

I can and do see why a new leader might want to start off trying summer at a well run well organized Council Camp, young Scouts might be better of trying their first summer at the Council camp.

What the Scouts want to do /What's on offer:

If the PLC comes up with an idea that is best accomplished at such and such a place, then that's where we need to go.

It's good that different sites and different areas offer so many different things to do. A real case of different courses for different horses!

I do fear that we are in danger of making our Scout camps so much like home away from home that at some point it just isn't worth going to camp. -You might just as well stay at home.

You can never take the program away from Scout Camping. A camp with the most up to date facilities where the Scouts are bored is going to be a waste of everyone's time.

But a camp that might not have the best facilities where the Scouts are active and having lots of fun will be a winner.

A very good pal of mine takes his Troop to camp for a week each year on a little island. There's nothing there, just them and nature.

One of his P/L's came and said "Hey Jeff, I've mastered the art of pooping in a zip lock bag!"

Jeff asked how he got rid of it?

The Scout informed him that he burnt it!

Jeff said "Doesn't that stink up your Patrol site?

The Scout replied "I use one of the other Patrols fire!"

As Barry posts -I love this Scouting stuff!

[Tampa Turtle]

That ziplock story...it just makes you proud LOL.

 

In this country we always like shiny new stuff and hate to pay to repair and maintain the stuff we got (see: Nationa; Infrastructure). It is a lot easier to raise money for a new climbing tower than get new plumbing in the camp restrooms though the tower will be used a lot less! So we get stuff creep. Then camps start competing against each other--see the ads in the back of Scouting and Boys Life.

 

For summer camp I think it can be kinda cool to have access to a bunch of stuff that you normally can't do and cubs --with all those mom's, dad's, and tagalongs seem to need "nicer" facilities. But Boy Scouts seem to like the quasi-decrepit camp if it means they can run around more.

 

Maybe I am wrong. Seems like in our Troop we get two kinds of scouts--the kind who really like a swank camp with really nice facilities and the minority who are happy to poop in the bag as long as they are having an outdoor adventure.

[desertrat77]

"All that I expect is for the camp (and the program if its summer camp) to be as the council has promised for the fees charged. I expect the facilities to be that of quality. The facilities and the program are for the boys we serve. The camp should be in as good of condition as the renovated Scout office."

 

Abel, that's spot on! Couldn't agree more.

 

Very annoying scenario: camp facilities, whatever they might be, are run down, falling apart more and more, year after year...yet fees continue to rise, with no offsetting benefit of improved programming or food quality(usually these areas decline along with the facilities).

 

Reservists, serving their two weeks of active duty, offer to upgrade plumbing, buildings, everything. They are a civil engineering squadron. They'll provide their own equipment, labor is free. All the council has to do is provide pipe, lumber and gravel. Council says "no thanks."

 

Meanwhile, back in town, the council is moving into new office suites. (Saw this first hand in the '80s.)

[Kudu]

No one has mentioned a lot of good riding trails. Are horses that uncommon at many camps?

 

So uncommon that the requirement that Scouts know "how to help in case of runaway horse" is used by Wood Badge Staffers and our professional millionaires to heap scorn upon the law that requires the BSA to offer the Scoutcraft program of 1916 (in exchange for our corporation's monopoly on Scouting):

 

"So what do we mean by being Prepared For Life? Obviously we don't have to learn how to catch a runaway horse anymore. That's not an important skill!"

 

http://inquiry.net/leadership/sitting_side_by_side_with_adults.htm

 

http://inquiry.net/advancement/tf-1st_require_1911.htm

 

 

[shortridge]

boomer -

 

My home camp offered Horsemanship MB during the '90s. The camp director owned a horse, stabled across the road from his house and used by his daughter during the offseason and by campers during the summer.

 

If memory serves, it was a VERY popular program for a year or two when the instructor was a female exchange staffer from the UK.

 

But my understanding is that the costs were just too high to maintain the program. You can't just lock horses up in a shed and ignore them during the winter like you do boats and bow saws.

[Basementdweller]

So if you camp at a time other than resident camps......Are all of the amenities are available????? are they an extra charge???

[Basementdweller]

So if you camp at a time other than resident camps......Are all of the amenities are available????? are they an extra charge???

[infoscouter]

Basement - it depends on the camp, the particular facility, and what training your adults have. So - one of our 8 camps is about 1.5 hours from here. It has for the summer Cub Camping season, shooting sports, horses, a climbing tower, craft cabin canoes/boats (in a river) a Cub appropriate COPE type area and a pool. The pool gets drained in the fall - so no use there. If you have a leader (any program) who is range trained, you can use the shooting sports area. Horses only if the ranger can wrangle for you - and not in winter. Climbing tower is not a Cub program, but a Venturing Crew or Boy Scout troop with our council's climbing training (Not just Climb on Safely), can use the tower. Buildings are available for rent, including a bunkhouse type facilities w/ running water & toilets.

 

The situation is the same at most of the other camps - what can be used depends on the season. One of the Boy Scout residents camps is the venue for the Boy Scout winter camping program. THree of the others are used for the Cub Scouts fall and winter day camps. Unit use on those weekends is limited due to the other programming.

[Eagle92]

In my council, the row boats get moved to the only camp that Cubs can go boating in as all the others are located on rivers. Since the majority of Cubs are not classified as swimmers, they just move the boats. Everyting else is available for rent at the main camp.

 

Row Boats are availabel for all at the camp with the lake.

[Eagle92]

'Rat,

 

I just read your message for whatever reason. I know for a fact that that didn't occur while I was an adult in my old council. Elements of the 4th MarDiv and 4thMarWing did a heck of a lot for the council camp, to the point of supplying a battalion for support for one of our major events (10-12K+ attendees). I also remember Marines and corpsman getting TDA to summer camp staff. Although that has been a great relationship, the results of corpsman did get HMMWVs banned from the property, unless an officer is present.

 

An aside, I didn't realize a HMMWV can be flipped over, just ask two corpsman I met.