Show Pity on your Advancement Chairs!

[Engineer61]

I know there are two shops in town...don't know if they are "National" or not.

 

Momof2cubs : at the Scout level, the AC pretty much has the keys to the safe...she does it all...at least in this troop. The Scouts give her the paperwork and she verifies and enters it.

 

SN: "When you call, don't just ask "how many". Ask if they can hold the specific number of badges that you need on the side for Mrs Engineer from Troop 1234 for the next two hours until you can get there. "

 

That's not the problem...the inventory usually doesn't match what the computer says...how that happens...I don't know...so she'll find out when she gets there that they didn't have "20", they had 4 on the shelf. Then she has to drive cross town to the other store.

 

E92: "Suggest to your wife to build up a "war chest" of extra advancement items, i.e a few extra rank patches, MBs, etc."

 

I asked her about that when she started ... Not possible...the Scoutshop's are connected to District or Troopmaster (or something) (that's how they are supposed to control inventory) ... if the awards does not show up in the system when you get there...you can't have it. BTDT. Apparently, in my area, there is a LOT of MB and rank fraud.

 

On a side note, after the CoH was over, this Scout and parent started bending my wife's ear for like 30 minutes. Got a big sigh from the wife after.

 

I'm not certain that "instant rank and badges" are necessary...that puts a lot more work on the AC...especially in a large troop ... (how much gas do you want the AC to waste?)

 

I think the boys prefer to get the stuff presented a the CoH anyway.

[Buffalo Skipper]

"I'm not certain that "instant rank and badges" are necessary...that puts a lot more work on the AC...especially in a large troop ... (how much gas do you want the AC to waste?)

 

I think the boys prefer to get the stuff presented a the CoH anyway."

 

Instant Recognition IS EXTREMELY important!!!!!

Scouts want to get that patch to put on their uniform ASAP! I once missed a scout who had just had a BOR and he came up to me and very sadly asked why I had not recognized him? It is a HUGE deal.

 

Court of Honor is the recognition the scouts get in front of their parents. Every scout is presented with their Rank Cards and MB Cards (and on rare occasion, a patch, if the timing is right) at the CoH. These are accompanied by the recognition ceremony. Not uncommonly, one or two scouts will advance two ranks at the CoH. They already have their appropriate rank patch on their uniform, but they participate in both recognition ceremonies.

 

Scouts wear their MB sash proudly at the CoH, and for those scouts who may have earned MBs since the last CoH, this is the chance to show off what they have done. If you wait to present these until the CoH, then they can't display them until the NEXT CoH. If you only do 3 a year that could be 8 months after they earn a MB before they have an occassion to wear it. That is just wrong, on so many levels.

 

Any scout who prefers to get his "stuff" presented at a CoH is happy only because he is ignorant that it should be presented right away. Shame on you.

[emb021]

What Buffalo Skipper says.

 

The BSA has been teaching INSTANT RECOGNITION for several decades.

 

It doesn't have to be the AC who turns in the advancement form and picks up the stuff. could be another CC or an ASM or other adult volunteer.

 

Uh, while I do not like the idea of getting extra MBs, there should be no problems getting extra rank patches. ANYONE who has earn a rank can get extra (what if they have extra uniforms). Around here, the scout shops (all Nationally run) have plenty of merit badges and rank patches, and its usually no problem of running out OR getting extras.

 

CoHs are best for cards and mother's pins. Merit badges and especially ranks should have been passed out long prior so the kids can get them on their uniforms!!

 

[JMHawkins]

Since Mrs. Engineer is handing off the AC job, that sounds like a perfect time for the Pack to make some policy changes to smooth things out. When our pack got a new AC last year, she made it a requirement of her taking the job that the troop use ScoutTracks and that all advancement be entered in there. Now, that said, she still does take last minute requests from Den Leaders, but parents are not badgering her. It's a little harder to make those changes when it's the same person doing the job because people expect old habits, but a new person in the job has a little leverage.

 

 

[Eagle92]

Eng,

 

1) national shops have employees either in field uniforms with gold loops ( regular staff), or the professional dress uniforms (manager and asst. man.) At least that's how it was back in my day.

 

2) The way to get replacements ist eh following.

A) Have a scout with a completely filled out form with everything HE has earned listed on it to purchase the items. And if possible a copy of his SCOUTNET records for verification.

 

B) Make sure ALL information is correct and the form completely filled out per the SCOUTNET report.

 

C) Somewhere on the forms mark in big bold, underlined letters "REPLACEMENTS"

 

That should solve the problem of getting repalcements.

 

As to how things can get lost, VERY EASILY! Especially a lot of the smaller items like pins and arrowheads. People will put stuff in the wrong container, things fall onto the floor and get lost behind shelving units, items may have the wrong tags on them (especially some older merchandise that BSA no longer sells, but is still in the inventory) and unfortunately there is some theft.

 

I always hated inventorying the section of the shop with all the pins and small patches. I remember one entire shelving unit being done 3 times, and a few items being done a few times after the intial three.

[momof2cubs]

Of all the things I do related to scouting, being the AC for our pack is my very favorite. Yes, it is a lot paperwork and yes sometimes a parent will get bent out of shape, but I love seeing boys advance and hey, shopping is shopping amirite?? Anyone? No? Well, maybe it's just me.

 

I am hoping to turn in the keys at the pack level this year because I want to do it for whatever troop my son goes to this spring. But it probably won't happen. Troops don't have the same turnover packs do.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Engineer61 and all,

 

It was suggested to me privately that I may have used stronger than necessary language when I made my "sham on you" remark. Though I have very passionate opinions on certain Scouting topics, I should have found a better choice of words, which were unscoutlike, and inappropriate.

 

I do sincerely apologize if my words or tone offended you or anyone on the forum.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

[Engineer61]

 

Hey BuffaloSkipper, ya probably want to stop holding back on your comments...it's really not good for you to keep all that in.

 

I've been thinking about this whole "instant recognition" thing.

 

I don't have anything "instant" in my life...not even my coffee.

 

Most of the time, my hard work and dedication in anything I do is *never* recognized by anyone...not work, not coaching, not parenting, not volunteering.

 

But if you screw up...you will get that instantly, won't you?

 

That's the real world.

 

I kinda read "instant recognition" as "sense of entitlement".

 

But that's just me.

(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

[Eagledad]

Maybe its an engineering thing, but I understand Eng61s attitude toward recognition.

 

Still, as a scout leader, I also understand the positive value of instant recognition. The energy from the Pride of achievement will go a long ways toward motivation of future ambition. I remember a Webelos scout who was the first in his den to earn the AOL. He earned it at least three months a head of the next scout and he was very proud of his hard work. But do to unforeseen circumstances, he had to wait three months five month for the next pack meeting and by that time, several of the scouts in his den were also being award the AOL. The AOL had lost its luster for him. After that experience, I instantly recognized all my Webelos with all their awards at each den meeting.

 

Also, many troop programs require rank for requirements to many activities and positions of responsibility. At best, a troop might have a COH every three months, so that can be a long time to wait just to be publically recognized. I know how frustrating it is for Eagle Scouts to wait for their ECOH just so they can wear their Eagle Patch. Our Troop awards them an Eagle patch as a troop gift at the next Troop meeting.

 

Barry

 

[Buffalo Skipper]

Engineer61, I take that as "apology accepted." Thanks for your understanding.

 

"Entitlement" is a fairly new word, as words go, allegedly first used in 1942. For the sake of our discussion, I believe what we are saying is that "entitlement" is the expectation that everyone is treated equally, regardless of actual accomplishment or effort. One example I see of this is at some Pinewood Derbies where every cub scout receives an award or trophy, whether for mere participation or for some concocted award like "Fastest Looking Car."

 

If that is "entitlement," then "instant recognition" is pretty much the opposite. It immediately recognizes a scout for what he has accomplished. Waiting until the next Court of Honor may be a way of "entitlement" so that little Johnny, who hasnt completed his Second Class is not embarrassed by not finishing yet, so well give him a few months to finish so they can all be awarded at the same time. That to me is a "parental entitlement" mentality.

 

Eagledad hit it on the head. The night Frankie completes his First Class board of review, I give a little speech about how important the "First Class" rank really is. As I have Frankie up front giving him his patch, I tell the whole troop how it shows that as a First Class, he has demonstrated competency in all basic scout skills and so on. It is a big moment for the scout in front of his peers. Proudly the scout is wearing his First Class patch by the next meeting. On the other hand, if Johnny is embarrassed that his best friend Frankie is a First Class while he is still a Tenderfoot, it will motovate him to finish up before the next Court of Honor, or at least at a faster pace.

 

Seeing the genuine excitement on a young (or older) scout's face when he receives his rank badge in front of the troop is a tremendous reward for we adults, and reinforces that we are doing the right thing. The troop is always eager to congratulate the scout with louder prehaps a little more reckless applause than will be heard at the Court of Honor in a few months. But that is OK.

[perdidochas]

I agree with BuffaloSkipper, the problem is that the operation of the local Scout shop is counter to that method. Rank advancement patches can only be bought in conjunction with an advancement form. Luckily my troop has a supply of rank advancement patches from the past. We replenish it with patches bought using new advancement forms. However, a new troop, or one that has grown tremendously, would not have that option.

[Engineer61]

The term "entitlement" takes on a lot of different meanings...

 

... equal treatment ... regardless of achievement (Everyone's a winner.)

 

... unequal treatment ... based upon status or position in society. (Rich people are entitled to tax breaks, because the rules change for them.)

 

You'll probably find that the term entitlement technically dates back to early monarchies, where those with "Titles" were allowed certain benefits under the law.

 

Regardless, I don't agree with "instant recognition" because if for nothing else, it raises and expectation for future life....which is what I thought Scouting was about.

 

Instant recognition, does help with keeping the boys in the game...just as it does with video games....eh?

[Tampa Turtle]

We do not do immediate recognition in our Troop; boy have to wait until the next COH; we do only 3. I think it is because we have a big Troop and it just seems like too much work.

 

I think such few COH's does de-motivate the boys who are by nature competitive. It also creates false pressure to "hurry up and sign off" on advancement leading up to a COH. A kid misses a requirement by 1 week and he has to wait 4-8 months. He may decide to just do something else. Boys have plenty of other opportunities to learn the pain of missed deadlines.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Engineer61, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

Having seen how effectively it works as a postive motivator, I don't think I could ever be convinced that immediately recognizing scouts for their accomplishments is an "entitlement." Besides, Advancement is one of the 8 Methods of Boy Scouting; video games is not one of the remaining seven.

[Engineer61]

I have no doubt that instant recognition is a great motivator, most forms of "instant" anything are. Even "instant" death is preferable to a long drawn out affair...don't you agree?

 

I'm just saying it sets unrealistic expectations for the future of the boys ... in any case, our Troop doesn't follow it ... saving much wear and tear on my minivan.

 

From my other thread, perhaps we need a Tiger Team to do a Deep Dive to see which of these methods falls as a Best Practice and which is just Boiling the Ocean.