Advice for a Buddhist cub-Parent

[qwazse]

This from a friend-of-a-friend ...

 

I just brought my son to his first Wolf den neighborhood meeting in Cub Scouts. I noticed how "God" is in the Boy Scouts Promise that is recited before every meeting and asked if my son could be a member as a Buddhist. I guess scouting is my new arena for Kosen-rufu!

 

I've stated my personal approach before. (That "God" in its linguistic roots was never specific to any deity, let alone a Judeo-Christian one.) But, clearly when we have a parent who wants to avoid any confusion (either in his son's mind or the minds of his fellow scouts) that doesn't wash too well. Besides, any advice I give is from "outside the tent" and with the goal of keeping a boy in the program.

 

So, seasoned Buddhist scout-parents, how did you handle this? Did you help scout-son choose a different, less "laden" term? Did you help him be able to explain that his use of the word, for the sake of expediting the oath, might mean something different than what the other boys are thinking. Did you let it slide, figuring "duty to God" translates into "duty to the Universal Buddha Nature" without much explanation.

 

How did this work out as your boy grew? What helped? What didn't?

 

If ya'll are nice I'll share this link with the parent who raised the question.

[Scoutfish]

I think your approach was dead on, but I too want to hear what the parents did.

 

This is something I'd like to know too- for future reference in case it ever comes up.

[packsaddle]

Buddhists around here are already aware that they're in 'hostile' territory so they do in scouts what they do everywhere else: they shrug it off and live with it. At least that's what a few Buddhists have explained to me.

[DeanRx]

I don't know about it being "hostile" territory, but most likely ignorant and prejudiced territory (even if its not intentional).

 

I can't speak to the Buddhist religion specifically, but I had a scout (now bridged to Boy Scouts and waiting for my son to catch up) in our unit that is Hindu. I don't know that it was a big deal for him or his family as he always just said "god" in the promise.

 

His father and I are very good friends and he explained it to me as, "We know who we are and what we believe, but I also understand that I live in a 90+% judeo-christian place. Its do as the romans do as far as I'm concerned." They even had a CHRISTMAS TREE in their house this year!

 

So, I guess it probably depends on the preferences of the individual family? It could be used as a good catalyst for conversations about different religions of the world, and mutual respect and tolerance towards those with belief systems different than your own. Never too early to start that type of thinking in the youth IMHO.

 

A somewhat similar issue came up with a father who was a Canadian citizen to a boy in our unit. He brought to my attention that he didn't feel right pledging allegiance to the flag of a country he wasn't a citizen of.... I said, "OK, you can sit if you want, but I'd prefer you at least stand respectfully as it would be less noticable and less of a distraction." He was fine with that.

 

I have no problem with a scout inserting their own deity in place of "god" in the scout promise. Not sure how that works with Buddhists if they have multiple gods, but they can figure out what works best for them.

 

I think the over riding theme for both sides is:

1) Do whatever is most comfortable for the 'minority' religion without making an undue big deal out of it.

2) Use it as a learning opportunity for all involved.

 

Bottom line, the scouts will follow the reaction of the adults in the situation, so have a discussion and decide what is best for all involved and then move on. The more you make of it, the more the scout is likely to feel like an outcast and the more likely other scouts are to pick up on it and, unfortunately, tease or pick on him about it.

 

As for BSA regulation - the belief in 'god' phrase has always been interpreted as a "personal belief in a higher power, that to reach your full potential in life, one must understand they cannot to it on their own, they must have a faith in a power greater than themselves." or something to that effect...

 

So, as to whether the boy can join, of course he can. Now, if the CO is a church or other religious affiliated organization, then I don't know if they can bar someone based on their religion or not. There's a HUGE difference between if they can and if the should, and I would hope they would NOT, but who knows...

 

Heck, when I was a kid, I turned heads because I was a Catholic boy who joined the troop chartered to the Presbiterian Church! That was where I had the most friends! But I guess I was supposed to be in the troop over at the Knights of Cloumbus Hall. Whatever?

[packsaddle]

Dean, The Buddhists I know do not worship any 'god'. I have read a few places that some Buddhists refer to Buddha in terms of deity, though, but a Buddhist would have to provide more details about that.

I actually asked why one of the Buddhist parents used the term "hostile" and it was clear in his response. I felt badly that I hadn't spotted it myself. When children of Buddhists are taunted by others and told they are "going to hell" (this also happens to Unitarians and sometimes even Jews around here), the parent explained that it makes them afraid to admit what their beliefs are, even sometimes to people they are around in day-to-day life.

Seems hostile to me too, under those circumstances.

[Engineer61]

Yeah, I would image "hostile environment" might be the correct term for Hindus, Buddhists and other non-Christian faiths, especially in some of the CO settings.

 

The rub for Buddhists is that they don't generally believe in a supreme being at all, a contradiction with BSA edict. Buddha himself was not a deity, but a teacher.

 

Depending on the rigidity of the following, parents may choose to "play along" with Scouting in this regard, or, as I have seen a couple of times, they learn of the issue and end their participation right there...sometimes mid-meeting.

 

In the end, it is the parent's decision, and one that we should embrace and accept.

[Kudu]

Depends on the brand of Buddhism.

 

There is no problem so long as Buddhists agree, in writing, that they are not "the best kind of citizens."

 

The dilemma of "God" versus "No Such Thing" is Western dualism. To most Buddhists such a problem is unnecessary: A form attachment to the world that leads away from the goal of Buddhism: Mindfulness.

 

But less than perfect Buddhists can take the same route as agnostics and Baden-Powell: Pantheism.

 

Simply use the pantheist definition of "God" as the "Sum-total of the natural laws in the universe."

 

http://inquiry.net/ideals/beads.htm

 

 

 

 

[Cambridgeskip]

I have a Buddhist boy in my troop in the UK. We also have official different wordings for the promise depending on the religiong of the individual. For Biddhists they replace "God" with "My Dhama". We gave this lad the option to use that version of the promise but he was happy to stick to God to fit in.

 

Regarding other countries non UK nationals can replace "The Queen" with "The country in which I am now living" which is good for us as we currently have 9 different nationalities in the troop (comes from the university, they have accademics from all over the world and we get a lot of their kids). Including one girl with an Argentinian Dad, Italian Mum, was born in Denmark, moved to Brazil when she was 4 and to the UK when was 9.

[SeattlePioneer]

I think parents concerned about such issues need to find free time when they can discuss this with the Cubmaster in a leisurely way.

 

What ways can the Cub Pack accomodate the beliefs of a Scout of a minority religion in ways that are respectful to all, and prefereably teach the majority about some of the principles of the minority faith?

 

The best way to do this in my experience is to allow the parent and child to lead an invocation or other expression of their faith as part of the Cub Pack from time to time.

 

Personally, I'm opposed to turning religious beliefs to mush in order to accomodate everyone. I'd rather have Catholics repeat some faith based statement some times, Jews do the same some times, Buddhists do the same another time and so on. That respects everyone and gives everyone an opportunity to understand the faiths of other people.

 

That goes for the Cnadian Scout family as well. Find out what ceremony Canadian Cub Scouts repeat and give the parent and child an opportunity to explain and repeat that statement from time to time.

[Scoutfish]

" Personally, I'm opposed to turning religious beliefs to mush in order to accomodate everyone."

 

 

I don't see it turning religions into mush. But I do see it as us showing the scouts that their religious beliefs are second class/ second rate to our own beliefs.

 

I see it like this:

 

You all know the cub scout promise right?

 

Hasn't been too long sinbce you recited it with your son?

 

I ________ promise to do my best

To do my duty to God and my country,

To help other people, and

To obey the Law of the Pack.

 

So....each scout changes what is said by adding his own unique name to the promise.

 

BUT...it doesn't change what he promises to do.

 

So wether it be God, Buddha, Odin, Allah, Durga, or Zues....

 

......the scout is still making a promise to be his best, to be a good citizen, respect others, etc......

 

 

So. What's the problem?

 

When our cubs recite the cub scout promise, having 12 boys say their own names - of different varying length - the promiss doesn't get all messed up.

 

It's still the promise and the intent to be noble that matters.

 

 

 

 

 

[qwazse]

So wether it be God, Buddha, Odin, Allah, Durga, or Zues....

 

I guess that's my hang-up. English speakers chose the term "God" to refer to the highest authority of any and all religion. Then Christians successfully pounded it into peoples' heads that this refers to a personal being with a Bible full of very specific traits. So what seems to me to be a perfectly serviceable word is getting tossed by the wayside. (Using SP's term, it's no longer the "mush" it used to be!)

 

So, I go about telling my youth that part of their religious duty is to nurture their understanding of "God" by practicing and growing in their faith. That leads some to fill that container with Jehovah; others the Holy Trinity; others My Dahma; and so on ... This approach seems to help everyone get over the oath and be a little more open to one another's world views.

 

But I'm working with older youth who are capable of that nuanced view. Plus, I haven't been confronted by a Buddhist scout or venturer on the matter. I've only heard cub parents bring it up. So, I'm trolling for an approach that works for them. So far, CambrigeSkip's seems to be the easiest.

 

[Scoutfish]

Now that i go back and read my own posts, It does sound like I am saying that it's no big deal to say "God".

 

What I meant was this: Just like each scout saying his own name at the beginning of the promise,

I do not have any issue with, nor do I see a problem with each scout substituting hiw own word in place of God wether it be God, a god or any other entity or diety of his beliefs .

 

And I mean this in the sense of BSA does not define what constitutes belief in God or the practice of religion.

 

My point was only that while my son may say "...Duty to God..."

 

I see no problem with the scout beside him saying "...duty to My Dahma..."

 

or the scout beside him saying "...my duty to Allah..."

 

And in my posts, I tried not to list other peoples gods as "gods" , while listing mine as God. I tried to use a few examples of their god's proper names.

[Kahuna]

I'm Buddhist, but was not one when I was a kid and haven't had a boy in Scouts. However, I like Kudu's explanation and think I would talk to my son and anybody else who needed to know along those lines.

 

In the final analysis, a lot of Buddhists do believe in a supreme being, as I do, but it would not be an entity as such. More the universal consciousness.

[Novice_Cubmaster]

Adult Leader: Blah, blah... blah blah God.

Blah blah, blah blah blah duty.

Blah blah blah...

Who wants to sing the "Yogi Bear" song?

Cubs: We Do!!! Yeah!!!!!

 

Fortunately, that which is so important to adults, isn't that much to the cubs.

 

PS - my sons were the only Jewish kids in the pack, chartered by the local Methodist church. (More power to the UMC, by the way - good folks).

 

NC

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

This is just the kind of thing that could be discussed over coffee with the Cubmaster. I'd have no objection to that.

 

Still, a better solution in my opinion is to give families the opportunity to discuss their religious beliefs briefly in a pack meeting from time to time. That is an opportunity to educate boys and adults in different religious faiths, and might help get rid of the "God, ho hum" attitude that treating religion as a matter of routine tends to engender.

 

Most good Cub Scout program doesn't repeat the same thing over and over. It changes things up and highlights new things. Why not do the same by explaining various religious faiths represented in the pack?