Patrol Outings

[AJR2305GDC]

Are patrol campouts/hikes still authorized by BSA and G2SS?

 

EDIT: If so, do any of your patrols do this?(This message has been edited by AJR2305GDC)

[Eagle92]

Patrol camp outs without adults are now forbidden. All overnite activities must have 2 adults.

 

Patrol day activities are still allowed. So any patrol hikes, service projects, shopping, etc is OK.

[Beavah]

Yep, plenty of patrols do 'em. Da most common workaround for national's new-restriction-of-da-month is to have adults come out on a campout but hike separately and set up camp a ways away. On many public lands, yeh have to hike and camp by patrol in any event to meet da group size restrictions.

 

Beavah

[CA_Scouter]

Not permitted. I tried to arrange one kinda like Beav indicates (only Life Scout and above), but the Committee went bonkers and emailed the District Camping Chair and I was told in no uncertain terms that we could not do so.

 

For me, there is just a huge inconsistancy. They cannot do an overnighter by themselves when they are under 18, but as soon as they turn 18 they become an ASM and the restriction is lifted. Several of these guys have done overnighters on their own btw.

 

 

[Reasonable Rascal]

I've been encouraging my patrols to plan individual events but so far have only succeeded in getting the New Scout patrol (very relative term there) to do so once last Oct. We did have 5 adults including a mom whose son was crossing over that week-end (she's also the Troop CC). The boys hiked up while 3 of the adults drove the gear up. We did tent and cook separately though it wasn't Kudu's 300 feet apart; that's because the boys chose their campsite without regard to the distance but more for the terrain. The Webelo stayed with mom since he didn't officially join the troop until the next day.

 

Now, even though we had 2 adults with the boys on the hike/climb up the boys lead it, the adults just followed along and thus trekked the extra distance when the PL got disoriented as darkness fell and took the wrong path for a distance before retracing his steps.

 

So, well after dark before the boys got to eat but it was perhaps the most successful campout I have ever had with this troop in 6 years. No older boys trying to ditch the younger guys, the PL did what he was supposed to, and the boys excelled at utensil-less cooking (something their older brethren have even yet to do).

 

RR

[Kudu]

CA_Scouter writes:

 

I tried to arrange one kinda like Beav indicates (only Life Scout and above), but the Committee went bonkers and emailed the District Camping Chair and I was told in no uncertain terms that we could not do so.

 

I can understand a helicopter Troop Committee objecting even to the new Centennial Patrol Method Lite, but your District Camping Chair forbids day hikes?

 

What kind of Committee people objected? What is the background or your District Camping Chair?

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

[BSA24]

"Not permitted. I tried to arrange one kinda like Beav indicates (only Life Scout and above), but the Committee went bonkers and emailed the District Camping Chair and I was told in no uncertain terms that we could not do so. "

 

Several points:

 

The District Camping chair is a volunteer appointed by the district committee chair to hire event chairs for various camping trips. He cannot tell you what you can and cannot do. His word is only advice, and he holds no more authority than the scoutmaster of the unit across the street.

 

The committee hires and fires the scoutmaster, but they are not his boss and do not decide the camping program of the unit. The boys should be doing that with advice from the scoutmaster. The committee chair is the advisor to the SM and may try to influence him, but ultimately only has the power to fire him. The purpose of the troop committee is to support the SM in his job by doing the admin and money work.

 

If I were in your situation, here's what I would do:

 

* Take BSA's policies as advice not as rules - you can ignore them and people often do. They are there to protect BSA from lawsuits, not to help you or ensure actual safety.

 

* Have a sit down with your committee and remind them what their job is.

 

* Thank the district camping chair "Thanks" and then ignore him completely.

 

* Advise the boys they can do it if they don't wear uniforms, have parents permission, and don't do it as an official troop activity. No BSA insurance or policies need to be followed then.

 

What is the goal here? To have the boys expand their abilities, or to make a bunch of people who relish saying "no" happy?

 

The truth is that many units just scurry about their business with little or no contact with the district. Some won't even know there is a camping chair. I think some of those units probably operate better than the political ones that go to roundtable regularly and view the district as an authority figure.

(This message has been edited by BSA24)

[CA_Scouter]

Yea, so I didn't include every minute detail of the situation otherwise I'd be writing a bunch of pages, ya know?

 

Kudu, it was an overnight backpacking trip (discussed in a previous thread over a year ago). Group A was the older guys, Group B the adults and younger scouts. We planned to hike in the same area, the groups would be a mile or so apart.

 

BSA - The District Exec also commented on the email. He also said it was not permitted. I well aware of how the SM position works, thanks. I choose to work closely with the Committee and this works well for us. We have a very good and active program and they support me tremendously. We just hit a speed bump on this one. Besides, defying them would simply mean they would pull their kid from the activity. I also think that advising the scouts on how to circumvent BSA policy is not a good idea. As I noted in my original post, some of these guys have already done it on their own.

 

 

 

[CA_Scouter]

RASCAL: One of the best outings we had was when the SPL was leading the hike and made a wrong turn at one of the trail junctions. We adults followed silently knowing full well we were going in the wrong direction. After a while he realized he was off track and we had to retrace our steps... we got in an extra mile, perhaps two that day. Great workout!

 

[qwazse]

I have a hard time getting adults 50 yards away from these boys. The young ASMs seem to find it the hardest.

 

So, here's the result:

None of the boys really feel like putting together a patrol activity and running it by the SM.

Tthroughout the year a bunch of boys (some scouts, some not) will hang out in a local hollow all day long.

A few college couples (and a younger brother - high school age) planned a backpacking trip on a popular trail with my advise. Except for the tour permit, it was an unsupervised co-Ed patrol overnight activity.

 

BSA, the patrol method happens with or without you.

 

 

[johnponz]

If the Troop Committee can fire the SM, they are his boss. Of course they cannot do this only the COR and IR can do this thus they are his boss. The District Camping Chair may not really have the authority to do anything, but you ignore his advise at your peril as I am sure the Council Scout Executive will stand behind him and he can do something.

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmm....

 

A district camping chair who knows his job would properly refrain from offerin' a unit any advice in this regard. The job of the camping chair is to organize district camping events in order to assist the units in gettin' kids outdoors, nothing more.

 

Sadly, not everybody pays attention at their training, or reads da materials they're supposed to.

 

Beavah

 

[Basementdweller]

A interpretation of the rules.

 

 

CA......so explain to me how an event, which adults will be attending, would be circumventing BSA policy?????

 

 

While the boys are not directly line of sight to the adults, they are not completely without a support system.

 

We can argue intent of any rule or regulation......But we regularly camp a distance from our scouts. Sometimes more than 300 feet, sometime much less.

 

I believe the intent of the rule is to prevent a group of untrained boys being dumped off at a camp site or trail head. While recently adults have proven little or no help in self rescue....the intent is for someone with skills to be available to help in situations.

 

 

 

If it were me CA and I met that kinda resistance, I would say great and hold two seperate outings. One for the young guys and camp, hike and train them. The second with the old scouts where I would hang back and fulfill the required BSA role of a presence. I would not camp directly with them but off on my own.

 

no biggy in my book and not circumventing policy.

[qwazse]

BD - That's effectively what we do as a crew.

The better conditioned youths plan a more challenging set of hikes for those who have conditioned regularly. Some of them may help train the younger youth to the point that adult association is a mere formality. The seasoned contingent accepts adult chaperones (even though we tend to slow them down), I think, as a way of showing their gratitude and a desire to fellowship with us. There is no safety advantage to them.

[Tampa Turtle]

I think hiking with the older boys does foster a little more respect -and pity- from the older boys.

 

I was limping along after a long hike recently and half apologized for holding the group at the trail crossing for a few minutes as they waited. "Sorry" I croaked. One of the boys said "OK. I don't see many of the other Dad's here."