Adult QM?

[hopalong]

I have been a committee member for about 3 years - transferred to a new troop about a year ago where I am a committee member. We have a SM and six ASMs and 40 scouts. In this new troop there is a Committee member (not me!) who is assigned to the position of adult QM. This seems very odd to me. The Troop has minimal equipment, which is stored off site from where we meet. It is the responsibility of the Adult QM to make sure that the equipment is inventoried and in good repair, to purchase whatever the SM wants purchased, and to pull from the storage locker whatever the Troop needs for an outing IF the Troop is not departing from the storage locker location.

 

What I've observed happening is the SM attends the Committee meeting and expresses his frustration that equipment is not repaired, is missing, needs replacing, didn't get pulled, etc. and complains that the adult QM is not doing his job. I have been wondering why those who use the equipment are not responsible for at least reporting of status of the equipment after every use. And why is a committee member pulling equipment? I can't see the benefit of a Committee member having to go and inventory and inspect equipment after every event.

 

At our most recent meeting the SM announced to the committee that he needed us to get him a new Klondike sled within 3 weeks. Most of the committee was befuddled. I think they probably didn't really know how Klondike sleds were obtained. I chimed in and asked him if he was seriously asking the committee to build him a sled. His response was that we needed to find him someone to do that. The way this worked out was the SM told the Committee Chair which ASM to speak to. I shared that the specs and materials list are on line w/ our Council. The Chair went to the ASM and asked him to please coordinate building a sled. The SM and the contacted ASM have scheduled a day to build the sled.

 

I'm shaking my head wondering why this is so convoluted. I can certainly see the SM coming to the committee saying he needs approval to purchase materials to make a sled.

 

I'd like to propose to the Chair that if an Adult QM is needed, the role is more appropriate on the SM/ASM side rather than the Committee side. Since I am not SM/ASM trained, I want to be sure I'm not missing something about how a Troop best operates before I make this proposal.

 

Does anyone else have an Adult QM on the Committee side? Does it work better than it seems to be working for us?

 

Any feedback is appreciated.

[shortridge]

Almost everything you mentioned could and should be handled by the troop and patrol quartermasters - who are, by definition, Scouts.

[Lisabob]

Sounds like you may have found an adult-led troop.

 

A troop I used to be associated with had an adult QM on the committee. While it wasn't quite as odd as you describe, it was very close. The adult QM did all the work and was responsible for all the gear - including getting it to and from camp, storage, inventory, repair, purchasing, etc. The so-called youth QM did absolutely nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eagle732]

We have an adult QM advisor, he is a committee member. He does the things the scouts can't do. Tow the trailer, order equipment, major repairs etc.

The SPL chooses the QM, and something new for us, each patrol will have a QM which will also act as assistants to the troop QM as needed.

Each patrol is assigned their own equipment such as tents, chuck box, etc. Everything is marked so we know who belongs to what. No one other than that patrol uses its equipment and they are responsible for it.

If the SM can't talk with his ASMs you've got bigger problems then needing a Klondike sled.

 

 

[Twocubdad]

Sounds like your SM isn't much of a people person. Is the role of adult QM really the issue or just today's symptom?

 

A new sled in three weeks is a push for adults or Scouts, but otherwise, Short is correct.

 

Our patrols are responsible for their own gear. We went to no small expense to make sure every patrol has at least one of everything. All gear is plainly numbered or color-coded and assigned to a patrol. There is no sharing between patrols so there is no question who is responsible for what. The troop QM is responsible for keeping the locker room neat, handling troop gear (program stuff not part of the patrols' kits), working with the Parol QMs as needed and working with the adult ASM/QM when it comes to purchases or more involved maintenance issues.

 

Our adult QM is primarily an ASM. He camps with us most months. He is the coach/mentor for the troop QM and helps train him. Depending on where we are in the cycle, if we have a new QM, the ASM is probably a little more involved with checking gear in and out and loading and and unloading the trailer than he is later in the term with a more experienced QM. Of course that's true for all uf us.

 

The same guy fills the committee position of "Equipment Chairman" of whatever they call it. He attends committee meetings and gives a report. "I refilled the propane tanks this month and we probably need to buy more tent stakes" would qualify as a long, detailed report.

 

[IM_Kathy]

I'm the adult QM for my son's troop.

 

my job - pick up and pay for the equipment the youth quartermasters have picked out and gotten approved, and then get reembursed by the treasurer. I advise boys that have never been QM before. And on campouts where the trailer is getting taken then I make sure we have someone that will pull the trailer. if I'm not attending the campout I make sure to get the keys to the trailer to someone that is going - we use to have the QM boys have the keys but had issues with losing keys so adults hold keys and just unlock trailer and then the rest is up to the QM.

 

one troop rule that has helped is that only boys allowed in trailer are SPL, ASPL, and QM's has kept down too many people in trailer bumping into people and breaking things, and things getting missplaced.

 

[Eagle732]

"There is no sharing between patrols so there is no question who is responsible for what."

We allow sharing, after all a Scout is helpful. The owning patrol still had the responsibility to get the item back.

 

Exchange between the SM and a PL during a recent camping trip.

 

PL- We don't have a stove

SM - Why not?

PL - I don't know, somebody took it out of our chuck box.

SM - What would you like me to do?

PL - I don't know, can we use the adult's stove?

SM - Sorry, it's being used right now. Find a way to work around it so you patrol can eat.

PL (looking dejected that I didn't solve his problem) OK.

 

A few minutes later I see our extra single large pot burner that we use for heating dish water getting carried over to the patrol site. The put their griddle on it and started cooking pancakes.

I walked over to the PL and said "I knew you could figure it out on you own, good job"

 

Next camping trips:

Same PL - We don't have the hose for our stove.

SM - WHAT!!!

And on it goes

 

[hopalong]

Thanks, all, for the replies and insights into how you're handling QM. Twocubdad, there are definitely other issues, including the fact that the SM allowed the boys to burn the old sled in Nov because it was too heavy for them and they wanted a new one. His style is more of ordering/demanding rather than requesting and that causes its fair share of issues. Routinely says that if we want to replace him, to "go ahead". Sigh.

 

Your responses have given me some ideas for approaching the Committee Chair. Will ask a bunch of questions about how we got here to make sure I understand issues and approach a suggestion that we return as much as possible of this to the boys with some mentoring. The gear is stored between a storage unit and trailer, so there will definitely be an adult role in this. Which "side" they come from doesn't really matter. Just need to keep adult responsibilities to a bare minimum.

 

 

 

[Twocubdad]

It's not that we forbid the boys from helping each other out, rather the patrols have everything they need so there should be no need to. If the Aardvarks forget their skillet and ask to borrow one from the Zodiacs, the Zodiacs are free to do so. However if the Aardvarks then lose or trash the skillet (it CAN be done) the Zodiacs are on the hook to the troop for replacing it. It would be up to the two partols to figure our who pays.

 

Compare that to the old system where everything was on big shelves in the back room. Before campouts the patrols just went in and took what they needed. If something was broken, lost or just left dirty, it didn't really matter as everthing went back on the shelves. There was a fairly high probability that you would draw a different item next month. The new system now means you have to live with the gear you're assigned so you better take care if it.

 

The biggest down side is the amount of stuff we have. We have enough gear for every patrol to have a full complement. For example, every patrol is assigned three two-man tents and one three-man. Before we only had to have enough tents for the average high attendance on campouts.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[Oak Tree]

We have an adult "equipment coordinator", which is the title given in the Scouting literature, I believe. His job is to be the coach for the youth quartermaster. He also actually has a credit card which can be useful for acquiring new equipment. In general I just let him work with the troop quartermaster and the patrol quartermasters in taking care of the equipment. There might be a few times where he jumps in and does more than he needs to, where the youth could do it, but that's the case with every adult in the unit. It's a constant balancing process.

 

The key thing, though, is that we describe the job as the coach for the youth. Seems to work out well for us. We're trying to get to the position that TwoCub describes, for the same reasons.

[Eagle732]

I'm sure the scenario I quoted in my earlier post is quite common (and I thought, somewhat humorous).

Scouts have everything they need until they show up without it:)

I consider these teaching opportunities.

[Tampa Turtle]

Wow it all seems you guys have the same equipment room we had and went on the same campouts.

 

We have an adult QM adviser who is solely a resource for the Troop QM. Mostly he helps in bigger issues (like welding or getting the trailer repaired). The Troop QM is responsible for the Troop gear and the Patrol QB's for the Patrol Gear. Patrol gear is marked for each patrol (because the forgetful patrol often "liberates" gear on campouts. Patrols are responsible for replacements, etc.

 

If a Patrol forgets their stove, hose, fuel, food (which a;; have happened) the adults do not bail them out. They may wheel and deal to figure out a solution. Sometimes a patrol will be helpful and donate food or share their stove. Other times the forgetful patrol will have to trade washing dishes for fuel, etc.

 

The tough love really works. The number of incidents has gone way down and boys are checking things more carefully. It is tough to chow down on your adult breakfast when a bunch of boys is going hungry though.

[Engineer61]

So...if this is what the SM actually said ...

 

"At our most recent meeting the SM announced to the committee that he needed us to get *him* a new Klondike sled within 3 weeks."

 

Then you have a problem... had he said ...

 

"At our most recent meeting the SM announced to the committee that he needed us to get *the troop* a new Klondike sled within 3 weeks."

 

Then that's something else.

[Eagle732]

Seems if the SM is saying "if you don't like it find a new SM" then maybe that's what the CC/COR should do. The sooner the better. Keeping someone in a position they don't want to be in only leads to no good.

[qwazse]

TT: It is tough to chow down on your adult breakfast when a bunch of boys is going hungry though.

 

It's not so hard if the night before those boys had to watch you nom shrimp scampi and fettucini alfredo on a bed of fresh lettuce while they had under-warmed franks and beans. Practice makes perfect.

 

Hop, it sounds like to demote the QM to QM-advisor. It doesn't really mater if he/she is numbered among one of the ASM's. It's perfectly reasonable, in my opinion, for the committee to buy the wood to make a replacement sled. They need to inform the troop that the target for the next fundraising will be raised to cover that cost.

 

The patrol who needs the sled can decide if they want it to be lighter or not. (BTW: in our districts' klondike derbies, a minimum weight is imposed, so read your rules before you fret too much about that.) But, they should understand that their order will arrive with "some assembly required". The QM-advisor's responsibility stops there.

 

You could ask an ASM to be available one afternoon with some tools and willingness to instruct so long as the patrol is willing to put in the "sweat equity." Not the QM-advisor ... just a really nice mom/dad who is willing to guide some boys out of a bind.

 

Another alternative, by the way, is to give the PL a list of SM's from neighboring troops to call and ask if they would have a sledge to spare. (Unlike asking for left-handed smoke shifters, asking for more tangible assistance cannot be considered hazing.)

 

You want to work with the SM, but you also want to help him work with the boys. Here's hoping you all can figure out what will be a fair use of everyone's time.