Alcohol use at Pack events ??

[Tampa Turtle]

"Belts and Braces" look that one. I have always been a belt and suspender man myself.

 

For medical reasons I am longer allowed to drink though I sure could use a scotch after a day with some of our scouts.

 

BSA policy aside I think it is a really bad idea to drink around scouts and NEVER at a campout. I have been in Troops and Packs that have allowed it on the sly and there were some dangerous practices with the boys (Tigers IN the fire, Wolfs throwing axes) tolerated by the tipsy leaders who were having a good time. (I had to be the fun policy).

 

Mainly I have noticed that the occasional sipping of "the boy scout juice" is that imbiber tends to speak much louder and tells neighborhood gossip ("Tommy's mom is sleeping with Timmy's Dad --did you hear?"), profanity, and ribald humor all of which the boys can hear.

 

I have been to adults only planning meeting or thank you dinners where there was booze and I was not that bothered by it beyond getting folks home safely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

Unfortunately, council professionals seem to meddle in things they have no business in and won't get involved in the things they do. Since your professionals seem to have turned a blind eye to the situation, consider taking it to the pack's chartering organization.

[Basementdweller]

If the DE thought it would improve numbers he would man the keg.

 

 

If the result is losing boys then nothing will happen.

[Eagle732]

Maybe a friendly heads up to the IH and/or COR of the offending pack?

[Eagle92]

Base,

 

No way will the pro's man the keg for membership; that will get them arrested for helping underage drinking.

 

 

But they will not only man the keg, but also play bartender for FOS pledges. And yes, I've seen it happen.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[Eamonn]

As many Forum Members know, I'm not a tea-totaler.

I enjoy the odd adult beverage every now and then.

I made my living for about twenty years owning and operating a few bars and restaurants.

I would like to say that I've never had the odd beer or drink when Scouts are around.

But I can't because it's not true.

I've never had even one sip of a alcoholic beverage at any event that was organized by a volunteer.

However, I've attended fund raising events, mainly big ticket dinners where the rule book seems to have been tossed out the window.

Youth members have been selling raffle type tickets, going table to table while the adults are drinking (Most times drinks that are way over-priced!!)

Of course just because "They" do it! -Doesn't make it right.

But in my book it sets a very poor example.

 

Up until a few years back our Council used to have a few Parent and Son Weekends each summer. While Parents could sign up without having to be part of a pack, most of the time groups of parents and leaders from one Pack would all attend as a group.

I ran and was in charge of these weekends for a good number of years.

I thought they were great fun. It was wonderful to see the little fellows and their parent having a good time.

Sadly part of my job was to remind the parents that alcohol use wasn't allowed.

Not only because of the BSA rules, but also because the camp is in a PA State Park. Here in PA, alcohol isn't allowed in State Parks.

I'd make an announcement at meal times to remind everyone and ensure that everyone was aware of the rule.

It was also in all the sign-up papers.

Still when we'd do the big clear-up after everyone had gone we'd find evidence. Mainly beer cans.

As a regular at camp I got to know a few of the State employed Park Rangers, fairly well. (Really nice guys!).

They said that if they catch someone they are supposed to escort them out of the park. But, while they know a good many park users do bring alcohol into the park, for the most part when it comes to campers and hikers they do their best not to catch them and are happy to turn a blind eye to it unless it becomes a problem. (Hunters? That's a different story.)

I never went out of my way to try and catch people drinking at these Parent and Son weekends. I had a fair idea that it was going on. But my dilemma was what would I do if I caught someone?

Most are not members of the BSA, just parents.

I suppose I could have caught some then called the Park Ranger Staff and had them pack up their kit, wake up their son and have them escorted out.

As the parents signed up as parents not as members of a unit, the unit (Pack) had nothing to do with the weekend, the parents or how they behaved.

Do the BSA rules apply to people who are not members of the BSA?

While most parents are OK going along with our rules, is it fair to call the Pack Leaders out because some parents choose not to abide by rules from an organization that they don't belong too?

It's one thing if adult leaders who are members choose to break the rule. Of course that's just wrong! They are doing something that they know is wrong, but I have yet to read anywhere where it states Adult leaders are in charge of parents who are not BSA members.

Ea.

[Tampa Turtle]

Every once in a while a new dad imbibes and occasionally we are reminded why it is not allowed; sometimes we have to keep his boy from being embarrassed. In most cases a discrete word over Troop norms my the SM afterwards clears it up. No one loses face and 9 times out of 10 the dad comes back and is a helper.

 

That said it is mighty mighty tempting after a long day herding boys...

[Scoutfish]

Well, I suppose not all the parents know all th rules...even though we tell them, hand out parent guideboks with them, and pretty much all the camping forms from us and council list the big ones (like drugsm alchohol, weapons..)

 

BUt the thing is, people also forget or just don't think about it>

 

Point in case, a family where the dad is used to having two beers with dinner every night. Two, not one, not three, but two. He;s Italian if that means anything.

 

So what did I do when I sw3 him witrh his two beers - that he is acustomed to as part of his regular routine ( and nothing more)?

 

I tell him the rules> Tell him he can't have it. Then we carry on.

 

I do not toss him out, do not make a big stick or a big show>

 

But next time, I will tell him he has been warned before and know the rules.

 

Get rid of it or leave>

Third time ...you will be asked to leave and there will not be a fourth timed.

 

If somebody somehow sneaks it in and gets drunk, they will be driven home or have a cab called for them.

 

And anybody can say:" It's nota big deal and nobody is in danger!" But we have had scouts get hurt > they get sick, the get hurt, they throw up and they have allergic reactions. The last thing we need is to have to babysit drunk mom or dad while also tending to a sick scout.

[Eagle732]

Again, have you talked with the COR or IH?

I know if our COR heard about drinking during troop activities he would be on me with both feet, and rightfully so!

[Beavah]

I enjoy the odd adult beverage every now and then.

 

Yah, I wonder why Eamonn keeps drinking odd drinks. Yeh would think after all these years in the states he'd drink some normal ones.

 

We in da U.S. have an odd puritanical/prohibitionist streak compared with da rest of the known universe. So it's worth taking that into account in how we respond to others. There are different sensibilities on this, and it seems like cub scouting is where this stuff comes out most often.

 

I'm not fond of alcohol in the woods myself, and especially not with kids. But a gentle reminder and some kindness and understanding are in order. I do recall at one crossover event, though, we had some boy scouts find da adult stash and bring it in. I thought it was garbage someone left in the woods, so I told the lads to dumpster the whole lot. That solved da problem .

 

I also don't think folks from different units should talk smack about other units, past history or no. We're all brothers (and sisters) in this scouting endeavor, and even when we feel that another program is an Eagle Mill or whatnot, that's just friendly discussion and unit rivalry. In public, we should talk about how all scouting is great for kids, and each unit has their own style and approach.

 

So I'd listen and nod to the new transfer. Let 'em get it off their chest, welcome 'em. Only if I felt that there was a real safety issue would I encourage them to pursue it further. Otherwise, I might mention it offhandedly to their CM or UC if there was an opportunity. Generally, I like da notion of a unit that receives any sort of transfer to call the original unit and share any feedback (and get any "heads up") just as a friendly matter of course.

 

Beavah

 

[Eagle732]

Wouldn't want to talk smack about another unit.

Wonder how you would feel if there was an alcohol related accident on the way home from an outing and you didn't report.

Report it for what it is, second hand knowledge. Especially since there is first hand knowledge of past activities.

[johnponz]

I agree that an occasional glass of wine, beer or even liquer is an adult's choice...however not at a Scouting event. It makes no sense to me how people cannot have a good time with their children without taking a drink. If a person does not realize that a Scouting event is not a place to drink alcohol, I agree with Beavah, a gentle word and reminder is the first step. If the behavior continues the adult should be asked to leave. it is one thing to make a mistake and another to keep making one after being reminded it is a mistake.

 

There is plenty of time to drink. A Scouting event is not one of those times, and I would think most thinking adults and parents would realize this.

[Eagle732]

If I had a new parent come on a camping trip with a six pack I would tell him in no uncertain terms to lock it up and I never want to see it again. In a case like that a few words can solve the problem. However the OP describes a a situation where he has first hand knowledge of alcohol use by the adults in this unit in the past and a report from a new member to his unit that transferred from the other unit because of ongoing use of alcohol. The OP asks "is this something I should report, or will it be seen as a malcontent ? "

The short answer is YES he should report and he shouldn't care if he is seen as a malcontent.

 

This wasn't a generic "what would you do if someone showed up on a camping trip with booze" question.

 

I hope the OP does the right thing before someone gets hurt.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Yeah, just because it's reported doesn't mean you have to say they are a wino unit who walk around soused out of their minds having orgies and pouring liqour down the boys throats.

 

You can call the IH, DE, SE, or whoever and simply say:

"I have a transfer from a family who claim that the reason for the transfer was the use of alcohol during camping and other scout activities. I do not know it it';s true or not, but thought it was in the best interest of all of us to let you know and let you decide how to procede."

 

Simple as that! All you are doing is passing along the info and concern. You are not accusing or slandering.

 

Once that conversation is done...your part in it is done.

 

Now it's time to show the transfer why your unit and program was the right choice!

[johnponz]

I agree you should report it. Keep a record of the report, and your part is done.