Alcohol use at Pack events ??

[WestCoastScouter]

I have a new family that transfered in from another local Pack. The parent reports that this pack allowed open use of alchol at events, and that she did not approve. Also, due to other issues regarding program, ect. she decided to transfer her son out.

 

I actually used to belong to this former pack two years ago, before I and 8 other families also transfered out. There was alchol use at campouts, ect. back then as well. There as been bad feelings between our two packs since then.

 

Is this something I should report, or will it be seen as a malcontent ?

[fred8033]

Report to your district exec. Copy your scout executive. Document what the new family said. Document what you saw years ago. Keep an archive copy for yourself including the names of the DE and SE you contacted.

 

Then, never repeat the story again to anyone. Ask anyone in your pack who brings it up to never bring it up again. If it's brought up in other groups, avoid the discussion or leave.

[SSScout]

Adult beverages are just that: for adults. Whether the family approves of alcohol use is just that: up to the family. The state decides who may or may not drink beer, wine, whiskey in public venues and at what age.

That said, alcohol use at Scout events attended by youth members is prohibited. See

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss04.aspx

 

 

quote" ALCOHOL

 

The following statement was approved by the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America:

 

It is the policy of the Boy Scouts of America that the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances is not permitted at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members."

unquote

 

I would first politely REMIND the Scout leaders of that unit of their responsibility and then contact the local Unit or District Commissioner.

And then , enjoy your new unit and don't look back.

[pchadbo]

I would make the DE aware of this in a "hey we just got a transfer from Pack XYZ and they said they were drinking alcohol at pack functions. . .just thought you should know"

I woud not make it a big deal but make sure they are aware

[Eamonn]

I think most Forum members will agree that Scouting and booze don't mix and should never mix.

As for your reporting this?

I really want to know why?

If you know that the boys in this other Pack are in some sort of danger because of what's going on?

Then you have no choice but to do the right thing and report it.

But...

You have sat on this for two years and done nothing???

Seems odd.

If the upset new family feel the need to report it?

Then that's up to them.

I'm sorry but from what you have posted it seems that there is ill feeling at the heart of this.

Ea.

[WestCoastScouter]

To add on some info that was missing:

 

Two years ago it was reported in writing to the DE and the CE about the alcohol use... I dont know if anything became of it or not. Now two years later I hear that it's still going on. There has been ill feelings between the two packs over the last two years. Thus my question on is it worth it to report, ot does it appear to be petty on our part to report it to the CE. (no DE right now)

[Eagle92]

From someone who dealt with a similar problem, I can tell you be prepared for the negative consequences when you report it.

 

If the new family told you this, I would write a letter to the SE stating such and then drop it. let it be in his court. But keep a copy of the letter.

 

Sometimes folks are warned about the alcohol and are given a second chance. In my situation, that's what's happened, and I was persona non grata for the rest of summer camp because I reported it.

 

[Cambridgeskip]

I would say the approach should depend on what exactly has been happening.

 

Are we talking about leaders having a beer round the fire when the kids have gone to bed or a glass of wine with dinner? If that's the case I would say pchadbo's approach was probably best. At present no one is in danger but the adults in question would now be aware it has been noticed and it's up to them how they respond.

 

Or are we talking about more extensive drinking with adults not capable of administering first aid or dealing with any other crisis that may be occur. ie the cubs themselves are potentially in danger? If that is the case I would say that you need to escalate matters.

[fred8033]

Whether it causes hard feelings or not, I'd pass it on to the DE or SE. Don't contact the CE. Let the paid guys deal with the CE (charter org exec) and the unit. I'd only mention the new family comments and alude to the previous communication.

 

"Two years ago I let you know of my seeing alcohol at Pack ### events. Our pack just received a new scout from that pack and they gave one reason of transfering being the use of alcohol during pack events."

 

Reference the details as it does affect whether it is an educational situation or a get these guys out of scouting situation.

 

Then move on and never mention it again to anyone.

 

 

[Eagle92]

Skip,

 

BSA is not like the UK or other European scout associations where alcohol is permitted. You bring a pint to a BSA event, they will kick you out.

 

Biggest shock I had was when I first showed up at Kingsdown Scout Camp, which was the staff BBQ dinner nite, and pints of bear and some wine was out to drink at dinner.

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Personally, I don't think I's report anything to the DE or CE. After all, the only thing I know amounts to gossip.

 

If I were asked about it, I might suggest that the person involved contact the DE or CE.

 

 

[DeanRx]

Well.... there goes the whole beer garden funraising idea out the window now.... just kidding.

 

I say you've already stated your case to the DE and you're not in the unit any longer, let it go. Unless its a slosh-fest and the adults are not about to be responsible, but then again - you have this info 3rd party, so how do you know?

 

I have made adult beverages availible to ADULTS at adults only committee meetings, held at a private residence (not BSA property). We discuss the pack business, then have a BBQ, a few folks have a beer or a glass of wine. I don't believe this is in contrast to BSA policy.

 

In fact, I have been to district dinners hosted at the local ELKS lodge where Boy Scouts acted as waiters and buss boys. The bar was open for cocktail hour prior to and after the "offical" dinner. Now again, this was NOT on BSA property, but is was a BSA function with scouts in attendance. DE and SE were both at this event.

 

I understand bringing booze toa BSA camp is a big no-no, but on a unit campout in a state or federal park where it is legal?!?!? I say its common sense.

 

I have organized over 15 campouts for my unit in th pst 6 years, I quote the BSA policy, but if I don't see it and a family has beer in their personal cooler to enjoy post-scout campfire in a "red solo cup", I don't exactly go around playing the role of beer fuzz.

 

Hell in my book, anone that works with 40+ kids all day probably DESERVES a tall cold one after they are all in their tents. I know not everyone would agree, but so be it - thats why if its done, its done extremely low key and not in fron of scouts. My alcohol policy is more aligned w/ the tobbacco use policy for adults.

 

Your milage may vary.

 

Dean

 

P.S. I was recruited to serve my 3 year term as CM over a cold one at a campfire... (non scout camp - but a campout with many scout families attending)

 

[Twocubdad]

I hafta say, Dean, I take it a bit more seriously than that. (And so you know from where I speak, I'll also note that as I type this I'm finishing off the last dram of a fine bottle of Glenmorangie single malt.)

 

We don't imbibe on troop campouts period. I'm on the clock 24/7 when out with the troop, and I'm not going to chance having to drive a Scout to the ER at 3am with the last of a Red Solo Cup on my breath. And since they were about age nine, the boys stay up way past the adults anyway.

 

Without the boys it's a different deal. Many a committee meeting has been held at the Irish pub down the way from the Scout House or at one of my ASM's really fine lakeside bar. I think your council showed a lack of judgement holding an open-bar event with youth in attendance. I sure hope the boys weren't serving the drinks -- minors serving alcohol is illegal here. Personally, if you invite my family to your daughter's wedding and have an open bar, I have no problem with my sons being in attendance. But Scouts are different. First, they're not my kids and I don't know how their parents may think on the subject. Secondly, it's against policy.

 

That said, we're not far off in our advice for WCS. Here, I have a relationship with my DE where I could let him know what I have heard and he would let me know how to proceed -- all off the record. But not everyone has that luxury. That notwithstanding, I don't think it's WCS's responsibility to police other units. If the other parent wants the DE's number, I'd provide it, but the rest is between that pack, their CO and the council.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[Cambridgeskip]

Eagle 92 - That, I think, is precisely my point. But I think I should expand.

 

Whatever the situation we all have to react in a manner that is proportionate to the circumstances before us. As you rightly point out if this was in the UK it would be a non issue if it was just a beer round the fire, but this is not the UK, it is the USA. So the reaction has to take into account both the rules and what the actual circumstances are.

 

BSA rules say no alcohol. Fair enough, they have taken a belt and braces approach to child safety. But in the situation I think you have to consider precisely what happened. If no one was in any danger, if there someone perfectly ok to drive and to administer first aid and deal with anything else that occured. If no one was drinking to the point where there behaviour deteriorated then I think that taking action about it that may result in formal disciplinery procedures is using a sledge hammer to crack a nut. Worst case scenario is you lose a perfectly good adult leader over something pretty minor. A simple warning along the lines of "look, I've heard about what happens with alcohol on camp, you do know it's against the rules don't you? You do know you could be in hot water if this goes further up the chain don't you?" should be sufficient.

 

The other side of that coin is that if someone was in danger, if the behaviour of the adults in question meant that they were incapable of supervising cubs then it certainly should go further up the chain, there is no question of that.

 

And this doesn't just concern alcohol, it concerns any rule that is there for the purposes of safety, no matter what country you are in or what organisation. In the UK we have strict rules about hill walking and the qualifications needed to go into certain terrains. I know of a leader who was not meant to take a group above 500M but who took them to the top of a peak that was at 507M. Theoretically it should have gone further up the chain but in reality, as the weather conditions were perfect, the ground under foot easy no one was actually in any danger. Given this he was quietly warned (not by me) that what he had done was against the rules and it would be a good idea to take a closer look at the map next time, and that was the end of it.

 

It's all about common sense.

[packsaddle]

As a member of a family that was almost killed by a drunk driver, my decision would depend on the individual circumstances, which are still not completely clear for this situation.

However, if I detected that a law was broken or that a DWI/DUI situation was about to occur, I would do whatever I could to prevent that DWU/DUI and failing that, I would notify law enforcement. I've never encountered a situation like this at a scouting event but I have taken this action in similar situations outside of scouting on more than one occasion.