Grizzly Adams and Car Camping Calvin - Scouts

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

Where you find many scouters together, you may find a little scoutier-than-thou dynamic among them. Some stake out positions as more outdoorsman-like, more scoutcrafty, more boy-led, more patrol-methodical, or more seasoned than thou. Normally it's nothing offensive, harmful, or excessive. It's just a little one-upmanship and it's entertaining to watch sometimes. Of course there's always that one guy with never ending war stories and wisdom he has to share about everything and anything. Eyes roll every time he opens his pie-hole for the umpteenth time to tell his way (the best way) to do whatever is at hand. But he means well and we can appreciate the good will and energy he devotes to scouting.

Posters in this forum stake out positions on various matters and occasionally denigrate other scouters, units, parents, and scouts because; they aren't scout-led enough, they aren't outdoorsman-like enough, have too much parent influence, not enough parent participation, or don't challenge boys to do exactly as the scouter has judged is best.

The disagreements mostly stem from differing judgments about conflict between worthy goals. BSA policies leave some things up to scouter judgment as to how to balance the inherent tension between some of Scouting's goals. The most fundamental conflict of goals within Scouting is the conflict between its mission to promote high ideals, standards, and values embodied in the Oath and the Law and its goal to be a large organization with wide appeal. You can have standards and values, and you can have wide appeal. But you can't always have more of each. At some point, you've got the widest appeal you can have without changing your standards and values. Even then, changes in standards and values may widen the organization's appeal to one demographic but simultaneously decrease its appeal in another.

The BSA's mission and vision statements are familiar (or available at http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/mission.aspx )

 

There is tension between the BSA's mission statement and its vision statement. The mission promotes the high ideals of the "Scout Oath and Law;" whereas the vision is to "prepare every eligible youth." It's unrealistic to think "every eligible youth" will be receptive to high ideals. But tension between aspirations and possibility can keep an organization vital and striving.

Outdoor Purists may unhappily note that the BSA Mission Statement does not include the words "to train them in Scoutcraft" that appear in the BSA Federal Charter of 1916. The absence of these words likely reflects of how BSA has chosen to manage tension between conflicting goals. There is an earlier document from BSA's incorporation in 1910 that states (according to the sources I could readily find anyway) that the purpose of BSA is to "to teach patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred values." Maybe this earlier document also contains the same wording as the later 1916 Federal Charter. I don't know. And I don't worry about it.

For now, it seems the Oath and the Law are where BSA draws the line of "if that's not your thing, then you're not one of us." Everything thing else is honest differences of opinion about how to balance the inherent tension between two good things: the formal structures of scouting programs and the judgment of leaders who must apply those structures in circumstances that demand some interpretation and judgment. Standards? Yes. Strict homogeneity? No thanks.

Some Outdoor Purist's object vociferously: those other scouters and scouts aren't outdoorsman-like enough. They don't know about the 1916 Charter's emphasis on scoutcraft. They aren't scoutly enough because they often go to campgrounds in cars rather than hiking out and back, uphill both ways, in the snow. They often have running water (w/ restrooms and hot showers even) rather than having to collect and purify water that pools in bear tracks along the trail. Or they cook expedient and simple meals rather than Dutch oven extravaganzas, or some other way in which they aren't hardcore enough... they're lazy slacker Cupcake Scouts who skate through by just meeting the minimum requirements for the Outdoor Purist's favorite things, be they hiking, camping, outdoor cooking, what have you.

 

But as it stands, the Oath and the Law are the center of scouting. Talk about outdoors, uniforms, patrol method, advancement, association w/ adults, service, and leadership all you like; goods things, all of them. But none rate mention in the BSA Mission Statement; the Oath and Law do. The other things are tools... the camping, hiking, scoutcraft and all those things we find in the handbook are structure, not purpose.

 

Since that is the structure, scouters know and encourage outdoor activity, knowledge, and skills. Rank advancement for scouts requires these things. And troops should ensure their scouts meet the minimum standards of knowledge and experience in those areas commensurate with their rank. But let's not confuse means and ends. The guiding principles are the Oath and the Law. That is scouting according to BSA. That is the scouting that will make a positive impact in the world outside of scouting through the lives and actions of boys and men who seek to live the Oath and the Law... be they primarily car campers or backpackers, computer and robotics geeks or pioneering and climbing adventurers.

 

The Oath and the Law are the centerpieces for a mainly standardized but significantly heterogeneous network of units where boys can associate with people who share those core values, and pursue personal growth in those values through activities that, beyond the basic minimum standards, may have very different foci. Some units are more high adventure and some just meet the standards for outdoor proficiency and may have other appropriate interests. If a boy wishes to earn scouting's highest rank, there is only a limited set of merit badges that he must earn and a limited set of other requirements. Within and beyond those requirements, there is a wide menu of options.

 

The Outdoor Purist (and other types of purists) will, with good will and intent, argue that "minimum standard" is a low target, and that boys should strive for excellence. It's true. But it's also true that if a boy or unit meets standards, they meet standards. Maybe they exceed standards in other areas, maybe they don't. It's the Oath and the Law that make them fellow scouts and scouters, not whether or not they camp as much or as ruggedly as we prefer. As a parent I expect my sons to go beyond the minimum requirements for outdoor skills. But as a scouter, while I may encourage above and beyond experience and skill, it's not my place to question the status of scouts who have met the minimum requirements for an award, advancement, or recognition - even if they are consistently meeting only the bare minimum for everything they do.

[desertrat77]

CC,

 

Ask a scout--current or former--their favorite scouting moments.

 

Have you met one yet that said "Gosh, I'll never forget the seven troop meetings that Mr. Smith took to teach the Citizenship in the World merit badge...what a wonderful character building experience!"

 

On the contrary. The memories usually center around: dutch oven cooking...backpacking in the unexpected rainstorm...the night the bear ate all provisions...felling a big tree with an axe...getting the fire started in the snow storm when no one else could...the tough canoe portage...receiving the Philmont Arrowhead patch after the trek....

 

Outdoor adventure is the BSA's time-honored winning formula. Everything else is just Powerpoint in the camp mess hall.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[Get Outdoors]

I agree Desertrat

 

More of us need to be thinking "outdoor classroom" Anything that can be done indoors can be done outdoors. I oftn look back on outdoor adventures that first appear that nothing was really acomplished but then I think "wow, they worked together, someone took the lead, they didn't burn the pancakes this time, they worked out that disagreement on there own, they got to be closer friends and they werent sitting one the couch playing video games." It was another great trip were I came back with thinking "it was all worth while"

[Venividi]

Even what constitutes "minimum standard" is subject to debate, and the answer depends on one's answer to the question "Minimum standard for what?" Minimum standard for skills needed to camp in the back yard? For camping in a state park with a campground having modern facilities? For camping on the back 40 acres of a farm or ranch? At Philmont? At Northern Tier? In a National Forest that is a 10 hour hike from the closest ranger station, and then a four hour drive to medical facilities? And for each of the preceding, minimum standards also depend on the level of "hands-on" that adults think that they must provide.

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

I agree desertrat77,

"Outdoor adventure is the BSA's time-honored winning formula."

 

But I don't agree that "Everything else is just Powerpoint in the camp mess hall."

Unless you mean by this that important things can be done even in settings as boring as "Powerpoint in the camp mess hall."

 

Favorite scouting moments? Outdoor adventure, of course. Mine too. But my liking the favorite moments isn't relevant to the importance (or lack thereof) of moments that don't rate among my favorites. Ask any High School grad their favorite moments of high school and they won't tell you about essay writing, geometry, or algebra.

 

Why do people mention scouting on resumes or college applications? Except in specific scouting and outdoor related contexts, it's not to signal that they really know their camping, hiking, canoeing, etc. It is to indicate their commitment to living the Scout Law and Oath, to signal that they have learned and practiced planning and organization, that they have set and achieved goals.

 

I agree with you that "Outdoor adventure is the BSA's time-honored winning formula."

But that formula is aimed at achieving results - not at making a fetish of the formula itself.

 

[desertrat77]

CC, I think the scout oath and law really come to life in those rugged outdoor moments, moreso than during indoor events. Outdoor adventure is what keeps the scouts coming back for more.

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

d-rat,

 

"oath and law really come to life in those rugged outdoor moments, moreso than during indoor events"

I think that's true in some cases but not all. It depends on the events and plenty of other factors.

 

I do agree that "Outdoor adventure is what keeps the scouts coming back for more" - it's not ALWAYS the ONLY factor but it's probably always the primary factor.

[acco40]

Scouting has a vision and mission and methods to accomplish that mission. What I don't appreciate are Scouters who feel they have Carte Blanche to do it their way. Most boys expect the method of the outdoors. Most adults do too.

However, you can peruse this forum and find countless postings from adults who claim thing like patrols and the uniform are not utilized the way they "do" scouting. Poppycock. If they don't use the patrol method and uniforming then it plain just isn't scouting.

[shortridge]

I must speak up in defense of Calvin. The Calvin I grew up with would never have tolerated car-camping. He tromped around in the woods with a tiger, built elaborate snow sculptures and created snares and booby-traps.

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

OK, the OP overstates the case where it reads "Everything thing else is honest differences of opinion......... Standards? Yes. Strict homogeneity? No thanks."

 

Not "Everything" else is subject to honest differences of opinion or sound judgment. For example the Acco40 post above mentions uniforms. Altering the uniform or deciding not to use it sounds more like ignoring standards than it does using sound judgment within reasonable standards. A uniform is... well, uniform - right down to what insignia goes where on it. The guidelines are pretty specific and don't invite much judgment.

 

But parameters of what constitutes Outdoor and Patrol method are less precisely defined than uniform guidelines and they do call for judgment - not carte-blanche to adapt these things to whatever one likes, but judgment within the guide lines - and that will lead to disagreements.

 

---------------------

And on a different note related to disagreements...

If we take "Car Camping Calvin" to be a reference to the Calvin of the comic strip as in the Shortridge post above... consider this: That particular Calvin has a frequent daydream of himself as Spaceman Spiff, traveling around exploring distant planets. He doesn't hike to the sites of these adventures; he uses a spaceship. It's not exactly the same thing, but spaceship camping seems fairly analogous to car camping.

 

But we don't have to guess what that Calvin thinks of camping. We can consult the literature. My kids claim to own every collection of Calvin and Hobbes cartoons ever published (I haven't verified that - and since I don't think we need more Calvin and Hobbes books, I'm not eager to discover that another exists). So I am familiar with Calvin. He has car camped - and he has stated that in general he hates camping. Check this: http://members.shaw.ca/dlazechk01/mergedcamping12.html see page 21 in particular.

 

[Mr. Boyce]

I would point out that developmentally boys at a certain age start picking out social hypocrises---read Catcher in the Rye for an extreme case!

 

This is because high ideals really do inspire youth. They want to make a positive difference. No small part of the appeal of scouting IS in such things as patriotism, service to others, etc.

 

It's a mistake to overlook this values component.

[desertrat77]

Mr. B, well said.

[BartHumphries]

Of course there's always that one guy with never ending war stories and wisdom he has to share about everything and anything. Eyes roll every time he opens his pie-hole for the umpteenth time to tell his way (the best way) to do whatever is at hand. But he means well and we can appreciate the good will and energy he devotes to scouting.

I am not that guy. But I could listen to him all night long.

[Kudu]

"Some Outdoor Purist's object vociferously: those other scouters and scouts aren't outdoorsman-like enough. They don't know about the 1916 Charter's emphasis on scoutcraft. They aren't scoutly enough because they often go to campgrounds in cars rather than hiking out and back, uphill both ways, in the snow. They often have running water (w/ restrooms and hot showers even) rather than having to collect and purify water that pools in bear tracks along the trail."

 

So you prefer a corporate-speak mission statement to the BSA's statute-defined mission of Scoutcraft.

 

Congratulations. I see Wood Badge Course Director in your future.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

 

[Tampa Turtle]

Despite what some adults think what the boys I encounter want is an active outdoor program --for which they tolerate the other parts. Some are motivated by getting the Eagle and racking up Merit Badges--but the most active of our boys want the adventure. The heavier the pack and more miserable the slog the better. Where we start to experience drops outs is when we start doing do many MB-themed car camping "working" trips. I dub these "MB academy in the woods".