What to do with parent(s)

[chaoman45]

Thanks all for the good advice and insight.

 

I have no idea why the SM put the ASM issue to a vote. It was a surprise, but I figured meh, let it be. I didnt tell him about the manipulation and have no intention to because I dont think it will make a difference. The SM is already aware of their borderline renegade behaviour. We DID say we were okay with what we had (although I still dont mind having another guy on board), but like I said... parents who want to see a problem will identify almost anything as something that warrants intervention. It sucks. One is a food planner, who only buys food for adults at the campouts. The other is more or less a transportation coordinator (we invented that).

 

Generally I agree on more action, but please remember the SM is really adverse to confrontation. When I mean he doesnt like confrontation, I MEAN he would rather not pour gas on hot issues like this. I dont blame him and I dont want to force him into an awkward position. With me being more aggressive (wc?), we tend to balance out and Ill speak out against intervention more frequently. BUT WHY LISTEN TO SOMEONE HALF YOUR AGE, RIGHT?!

 

They honestly do need training, even Wood Badge. Or more COR/CM/SM discussions.

[pchadbo]

"Point is, it's not the number of ASMs that's your problem. It's the quality of ASM's"

I would agree, although I am in the Pack our sister troop seem sto have the opposite issue, 25-30 boys and 13 ASMs plust the Scoutmaster. I have been to their meetings (totally Boy run) and to some of their outings (again, totally Boy run). I asked about the number and I was told basically it is to ensure the most flexability for the boys and to allow each to participate at a level they were comfortable with. I was at the Troop meeting Tuesday to thank my Den Chief for stepping up to help and beg for some more (I love Den Chiefs!!) and the adults were divying up the sections of T-2-1 and coordinating who would be helping with each part and making sure the BOys had opportunities to get what they needed.

[Lisabob]

A troop my son was in used to have as many adult leaders as boys (in the 30s-40s). Sometimes, more registered adults than boys. There would be 20 ASMs at some events, 30+ adults attending summer camp with the troop, etc. This was a point of honor for this troop.

 

Although it did, indeed, improve "flexibility" and ensure enough drivers to/from events, it was nigh on impossible for youth leadership to bypass that many well-intentioned adults. Some "got it" about youth leadership but most did not, or didn't care. Really, it is probably too much to expect of a 14-15-16-17 year old SPL to control the youth side of things AND keep the hordes of adults at bay. Troops like that tend to end up as adult-run, as a result. One reason my son moved on to a different troop (that, incidently, has far fewer ASMs, and double the number of boys)

 

 

[Tampa Turtle]

I think it is an advantage to have a lot of adults but Lisa is right there is a real danger of interference to boy-led leadership.

 

I like my current SM's idea of the more you work the more he listens to your counsel. Vote with your feet. One of our worst helicopter parents contributes the least. He is not taken as seriously.

[Beavah]

"BUT HOW FAR DO WE GO?!"

"WHAT IF THEY HURT THEMSELVES?"

"WE DON'T WANT TO INVITE A LAWSUIT!"

 

Yah, hmmm....

 

Da fundamental problem here is "we". In Cub Scouting, there is sort of a "we" in collective parent participation. Sort of. In Boy Scouting or Venturing, there is no "we". There is a program, run by approved volunteers, that yeh can choose to enroll your son in. It's just like every other middle school activity. Yeh don't control da curriculum, the school does. Yeh don't control the soccer team, the coach and the league does. Yeh don't control the robot club or the band, the people who run those programs do. They, not "we" decide how far to go, what to do when kid's get hurt, how much exposure to legal risks is acceptable.

 

That's the message that needs to be conveyed gently by someone with some moral authority. Could be an older, wiser parent. Could be da SM or CC or COR. Could be a strong Unit Commish. But it has to be someone.

 

Now, TwoCubDad's point is a great one, eh? This sort of stuff becomes worse when parents feel a vacuum, particularly a vacuum of strong leadership. And from what yeh say, the confrontation-adverse SM is leavin' a vacuum there in people's minds. Havin' more good folks selected to help may be part of a solution. Only part, though. Yeh still need someone to play da role described above. From da sound of things, it might be your CC (?). It's best, though, if it is someone older who doesn't have a kid currently in da program. Not because young people or parents can't handle it, but because moral defects in da listeners make 'em less likely to listen to certain folks.

 

Beavah

[Lisabob]

Beavah: "It's best, though, if it is someone older who doesn't have a kid currently in da program. Not because young people or parents can't handle it, but because moral defects in da listeners make 'em less likely to listen to certain folks."

 

Please expound?

 

[Eagle92]

I know Beav can explain himself, but I think I know where he is going and will try to relate it since he hasn't answered. And please correct me if I am wrong.

 

In regards to younger leaders, sometimes they are not taken as seriously by some parents, heck even other leaders, due to their age. They can have the exact exact same experiences and KSAs in scouting, but the person 10 to 20 years older will be viewed as more knowledable. I'll give you a first hand example. As a 21yo chapter adviser, we had a challenge going on with the district. I came up with an idea to solve it, but was pretty much ignored by the rest of the committee. One of the other committee members, one in his late 40s early fifties, hears what I am proposing, likes it, and then suggests the exact same thing I said, and everyone acted as if he was Moses coming down from Mt. Sinai.

 

 

As for parents not listening to other parents, sometimes it is viewed as favoritism, i.e. they want it one way to benefit the son and not everyone else. By having someone without kids, it lend more credibility. Another first hand experience, we had a situation with one leader's kid being a "faster mover" i.e just going through the ranks at incredible speed. While the kid really knew his stuff, there were leadership problems. Dad was an ASM, and there was a serious debate going on b/c dad viewed the discussion as holding his son back, and favoritism to the SM's son, who was in the same patrol. Long story short, I, the leader with no kids in the troop, proposed a solution that satisfied everyone. Funny thing is this, 99% of it was the SM's idea.

[oldisnewagain1]

IMHO: You can't have too many ASMs (who understand the program)

 

That being said, I have also asked a ASM to step down because he was trying to take control of the troop away from the PLC.

[Beavah]

I reckon Eagle92 did a fine job explainin' my furry accent.

 

That's exactly what I meant.

 

B