click23 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 http://scout-wire.org/2011/11/10/atv-pwc-become-authorized-council-level-programs/ "Following the successful piloting of all-terrain vehicles (ATV) and personal watercraft (PWC) programs in council camps in 2010 and 2011, both are now authorized for council-level programming. The 2012 resident camp standards, No. 430-111, define the parameters for both programs. To participate, councils must complete an application for each program. The following documents also are required: All-Terrain Vehicle (ATV) Program Application, No. 430-044, and Personal Watercraft (PWC) Program Application, No. 430-045. In addition, Scouts and Venturers must complete permission forms to participate. Please note: Both ATV and PWC use remains unauthorized for use at the unit levelthese programs may only be operated at the council level." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Well that will make summer camp too expensive for my boys. They might as well make it legal the troops at the summer camp we were at were racing around on gators and golf carts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Hopefully the majority of councils will ignore this garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noname Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I was at a camp this past summer that had the jet ski's or whatcha ma call it's. there was maybe 5? scouts participating.It was a additional $300 to play in the water. Looked like fun though. Our scout that did it loved it and that was his entire program at camp. If I could haved afforded it I would have done it too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Yabbut it's supposed to be fun WITH A PURPOSE. Unfortunately, this seems like another example of the Disneyfication of Boy Scouts.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 My council was one of the pilot's for the PWC. BUT it was part of the HA base we have if memory serves, not part of normal summer camp. And there were restriction in place due to NC laws. Had to be 16+ to do it due to the laws if memory serves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC9DDI Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Seems like an excellent program option to offer the Venturing program, or at High Adventure facilities - but I'm not sold on making it part of the mainline Boy Scout program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 A decent ATV is about $5k.....Say you have 10 boys a week for the 6 week camp season who pay $300 each for the program. That is only $18k per year for $50k worth of ATV's.....That doesn't include maintenance, break downs and fuel....... I don't have any idea how the program can pay for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutfish Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 WEll, at first I thought: "Oh great, there goes simple fun camping in the way of high tech fun". But you know...if you could teach boys how to responcibly operate a piece of equipment that otherwise does not require any training whatsoever....then it might not be such a bad thing. I'd still limit it to HA camps, but make it into a merit badge of sorts> It wouldn't just consist of simple fun rides, but training on proper operation, safety, courtesey while operating, maintainance of the ATV/ PWC For the PWC, you could require passing a basic navigation laws test> What doies this marker mean? What does this bouy mean? Who has right of way in this situation? Both could place a special emphasis on LNT while still enjoying the use of the ATV/PWC What special ttpes of first aid sityuations might you run into while operationg a PWC/ ATV? Nah, I wouldn't use them at a regular concil camp, but HA is supposed to be HIGH adventure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 What doies this marker mean? What does this bouy mean? Who has right of way in this situation? >> I see a certain progression that would make sense: 1. Complete the rowing or canoeing merit badge 2. Complete the motor boating merit badge, providing Scouts with a 12 foot aluminum boat and a 5 HP outboard. Providing boys with a power boat capable of 40 MPH speeds sounds like an invitation to problems to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank10 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Shotguns OK but ATV are a problem? Anyone care to tell me what character trait you can learn with a shot gun that you cant learn with an ATV? Sounds a lot like we didn't have them when I was a scout so they must be wrong. between taking away things I did as a kid with the G2SS and refusing to add any new ones no wonder the kids don't want to join. As for cost, we have 10 hay burners at our camp, with the cost of the feed, staff, barn/stables, tack and horses they can't be cheap and I assure you they are not LNT. But they keep the scouts coming back. Most my scouts have never touched a horse except at camp. How is this any different than a PWC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huzzar Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 My son signed up for the PWC sessions at summer camp and had a blast. Before he was allowed anywhere near one he had to complete the state boater safety course. The camp also worked in the Motorboating MB. The reviews from all the boys that signed up was "awesome." The PWCs had a novice mode that limited the maximum speed and also prevented overly aggressive acceleration. The minimum age was 16 so it was a wonderful program for older boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainerlady Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 One council south of me was part of the ATV pilot. It was only open 14 years and older and cost an extra $55 for a week. From what I've heard it went over well. It was Pioneer Scout Reservation in Ohio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I had boys go through the ATV pilot program both years. It was exceptionally well run and the boys had a BLAST. One sixth-year camper told me it was the most fun he EVER had at summer camp and would come back next summer just to do the ATV course again. The additional fee was $100 per week for a daily four hour course (day one was mostly classroom, but days four and five were all riding). At the conclusion for the course the boys received some sort of national ATV certification which is required in some states to operate an ATV. The course is very similar in structure to drivers' education and most of it is very applicable to boys who drive or will be driving soon. Still, my guys with real drivers' licenses were not bored with the classroom sections. Don't knock it until you try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCEagle72 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Our camp down here was a pilot for the PWC and also the ATV. While there was a capital cost with the PWC program, the ATVs were provided by the manufacturers for the program. 14-years old for the ATV program, 15 for the PWC program, and they must complete appropriate safety courses, merit badges, and agree to certain regulations. The "additional cost" for this program was $25 for ATVs and $45 for PWCs (which may fluctuate based on the cost of gas). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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