The Proper Role of Competition in Scouting

[SeattlePioneer]

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So what is the proper role for competition in Scouting? Do you have good or bad examples o9f how that is used?

[desertrat77]

Scouting is the perfect venue to teach youth the value of HEALTHY competition.

 

In our misbegotton notion of protecting kids from hurt feelings, or even a worthy goal of calling out the jerk coaches and parents of the world, we've allowed the pendulum to swing too far.

 

Parents, teachers, scout leaders--many of these folks seek to stifle the natural desire to compete and win. Society has tried to elevate the generic "participation" ribbon to a badge of honor--when the kids instinctively know that this is complete and utter rubbish. And an unsatisfying result of their efforts. This also grows new adults who are unprepared for the workforce, where there is competition of all kinds, good and bad. Entering adulthood thin-skinned is a tough way to start.

 

Healthy competition can be cultivated and ingrained in an organization. It takes courage, though, on the part of all the adults. Alas, many would rather take the easy way out and just turn every event into play time, "because winning isn't important, but having fun is...."

 

False.

 

You know what's fun? Winning. And winning in a scoutlike manner--from prep, to field of play, to post game--is possible. It really builds the positive character and confidence that we are seeking.

 

The scouts can handle it. The adults? Many adults carry the baggage of childhood events with them, and seek to insulate their scouts from even healthy competition. Sad and unnecessary.

 

It takes courage and strength to compete. These traits are also needed to create a culture of healthy competition. Ultimately, it would benefit youth and the adults.

 

We can do it. It's still part of our national will. We've got three great NFL games on TV today, and many Americans will savor each moment of play. This is a good thing, and whether it's an NFL game, or a local flag football game, or the pinewood derby, or orienteering race at the camporee, the same spirit of healthy competition is the common thread that attracts people to achieve something higher than the status quo.

 

Happy Thanksgiving!

(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[Eagle92]

Isn't competition what camporees are for?

[desertrat77]

Eagle 92, they can be, and many still are. But I've also seen the subtle trend of the events being just something you do...scouts not prepared, going thru the motions, not much enthusiasm. More of a round robin refresher course than a competition where the scouts used the preceeding patrol and troop meetings to hone the specific skills needed to really compete at the camporee.

 

PS My previous post was geared more toward my opinion about competition in general, and not specifically scouting. But I think the participation ribbon theory has influenced scouting as well.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[SeattlePioneer]

I'm happy to have some pretty spirited competition in Boy Scouts.

 

But how might that compare to competition at the Cub Scout level? It wasn't at all clear, but that was my main area of interest.

 

What differences between Cub Scouts and Boy Scout competitions would be appropriate?

[desertrat77]

SP, I'd say cubs should have competition, yes. Though not as complex, or mentally or physically challenging, as at the boy scout level. Invaluable lessons in preparation, task focus, sportsmanship, the ability to self critique, to value earned achievement--providing the cubs a safe environment to experience these things will help them as they age.

 

[frank10]

Way back in my youth (1979) I was patrol leader of the Bat Patrol. We were competing in the sledge race in the district Klondike derby, half way I fell down with a shattered hip, Waved my patrol on and the EMT's shipped me off to the hospital. The fool running the thing disqualified my patrol because all members of the patrol didn't cross the finish line.

[SeattlePioneer]

Wingnut---

 

That DOES sound tough!

[desertrat77]

Wingnut, that judge obviously had zero judgment...I can imagine the conversation your scout leaders had with him.

 

A fall that shatters your hip--whew, that is brutal!(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[SeattlePioneer]

Winners and losers among Boy Scout age youth is fine --- desirable, really.

 

 

But among Cub Scouts I think winner/loser competitions such as awarding trophies for top finishers is competition that is too sharp. It will predictably leave some very unhappy boys, often in tears. They just aren't ready for it.

 

I like to make every boy a winner, just not every time. I did a Tiger Cub Den paper airplane contest a week ago. Parents helped their boy fold and decorate a paper airplane, some for the first time in their life.

 

Then we had competitions for distance. All the Cub Scout launched their planes, and the boy whose plane went the farthest got a colorful sticker for their plane. Boys could pick another boy they wanted to fly against, and the winner of that competition got a sticker.

 

We moved a table out and boys competed to see who could land their airplane on this "aircraft carrier," with any successful landing being recognized with a sticker.

 

Most boys had 10-20 stickers on their airplanes by the time we were done. The competition was highly motivating for the boys, and they just loved getting stickers.

 

I do much the same thing with the Pinewood Derby, Raingutter Regatta and so on --- usually I issue boys a Pinewood Derby Racing license they fill out, with boys deciding who they will race against and the winner of each heat getting a sticker.

 

I encourage Cub Scouts to keep a scrap book of memorabilia from Cub Scouting --- their paper airplanes and Raingutter Regatta Racing Licenses, along with their Popcorn Sale certificate listing the dollar sales they had would be part of their scrapbook.

 

That's my idea of age appropriate competition for Cub Scouts.

 

You could count up the number of sticker to have place awards, but I don't do that. Boys who might be interested can count up stickers to decide if they are #1, which is fine, but making a big deal of that just isn't necessary at that age, in my experience.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

[desertrat77]

SP, I respectfully differ...the cubs can handle win/lose, trophy/no trophy, if it is handled properly. But we are up against a couple decades of zero competition anywhere. So some may indeed feel the sting of losing because it's foriegn. After all, this is the age of "all ball games end in a tie" for youth soccer up to a certain age.

 

The problem, often, is the parents, who bring their baggage to scouting events. Either win at all cost, or insist on "play time" instead of competition to avoid hurt feelings.

 

In the pack I am UC for, they had a pinewood derby with elimination rounds, first/second/third place, etc. It went well, no problems for cubs or parents.

 

In fact, one of the cubs who finished well done the stretch had the roughest, most primitive car there. His dad was deployed, and mom hand no previous pinewood experience, so the cub's car was truly his. Without weights and other scientific advances, his car smoked a bunch of "dad inspired" cars. This cub's confidence in his ability to achieve was bolstered, and the other cubs who relied heavily on dad to build their car learned something too.

 

Play time has its moments, but measured, age-appropriate win/lose moments are good lessons for cubs too.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Desert Rat,

 

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Well, you are entitled to use your methods--- but they don't appeal to me.

 

 

Often I find Pinewood Derbies where Cubs have to check their cars in days in advance and then they never touch them again. Some adult puts them on the track lest they be tampered with in some way.

 

These competitions are usually very slow, in my experience.

 

In my Pinewood Derbies, the boys choose the Scouts they want to race against and line up at the track. They put their own cars on and the race starts. The next group of boys are putting their cars on the track before the cars have stopped from the previous heat.

 

Boys commonly race twenty or thirty times in an hour or so. And that's what most boys want to do in my opinion --- race as many times as possible against their buddies.

 

There are typically several heats per minute.

 

The Scouts all start with a standard car kit and have about an hour to build and decorate their car before the race starts. All the boys have access to the same tools and boys often get help from different parents in building their cars, if they want it.

 

That fosters ample competition and opportunities for achievement in my opinion. No boy is especially disadvantaged because Mom has no tools or woodworking skills.

 

Boys who want sharper competition are invited to participate in the district Pinewood Derby which has a conventional competition and awards trophies. They are then free to polish up their cars to the fullest extent of the rules.

 

So I specifically oppose the kind of competition you favor --- which I consider to be overproduced and too adult dominated for my taste.

 

I maintain that's why "Down and Derby" memorializes the bad behavior too often cultivated by overly competitive events.

 

But opinions differ --- your style of competition is very common in Cub Scouts. You are, of course, welcome to your methods.

 

I offer my methods as a much simpler style that some might want to consider trying.

 

 

[desertrat77]

SP, a small but important distinction--the competition methods were the pack's, not my own (I'm their UC). As you know, the UC is the unit's friend. I would have professionally supported either method, your's or their's, if that is the direction the unit wanted to go.

 

In the pack I'm associated with, the event was well organized, moved along quickly, conducted in good spirit, and went fine overall. True, there are places where the opposite happens, as in the examples you cited. But I don't think these are reasons to scuttle competition. As long as parents, scout leaders and scouts know the standards up front, and these standards are enforced, it is possible to conduct healthy competition.

[ScoutNut]

Absolutely nothing wrong with competition, and trophies, in Cub Scouts. As long as it is not taken to extremes and is the be all, and end all, reason for the event.

 

Just because boys are Cub age does not mean they do not know about winning and losing.

 

Pinewood Derbies - I don't particularly like the free for all, you pick who you race against, start the next race before the present race is even finished, type of race SP describes. To crazy, with to little point.

 

We use a program that races each Scout against every other Scout, in every lane of the track. We usually end up with every boy racing about 8-10 times. 20-30 times might work with only 8-10 Scouts, but is simply not possible with 35-40 boys.

 

We have the final race between the three Scouts with the most wins. This gives us our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place overall winners. These boys receive a PWD medal, along with the participation certificate, ribbon, and display stand (courtesy of the Webelos working on Craftsman), that everyone gets. We also have everyone vote on three different design awards. These boys are given an award certificate.

 

The boys learn that even if there are winners and losers, they can still have loads of fun, both with their parents building the car, and with the other Scouts racing the car. Sportsmanship is a big part of what they are learning also.

 

We also have a Cardboard Box Derby, where the dens each build a vehicle out of cardboard and run relay races, through various obstacles, against each other. They love it. I think they like creating the niftiest vehicle more than actually winning the race!

 

We play games at most Pack (and den) meetings. While someone always "wins", or at least does better than others, the main point is to have fun.

[SeattlePioneer]

I like to have a game or competition at pack meetings.

 

In December dens make and decorate a Christmas sleigh, with a rope out the front for the "reindeer" to pull.

 

One Scout is Santa in the sleigh, and the rest of the den are reindeer, pulling the sleigh through the racecourse. Then a new Santa is seated and the relay race continues until everyone has been Santa.

 

One intention is to relate this to the Klondike Derby for Webelos when they build and race a sled in the snow for real.