System for holding POR responsible

[desertrat77]

Great discussion...thank you all, I just learned a few things.

[kari_cardi]

 

 

We are considering helping the scouts sew velcro to their uniform shirts and keeping a troop stash of POR patches so they can swap them out as needed. It's not just for identification, but to help build pride in the position. My son will probably be first, he has already shown an interest.

[Tampa Turtle]

The POR patches drive me crazy! Boys leave the old ones on and take forever to put the new one on. Velcro might be OK if it is Khaki. I did that for my Webelos DL/ASM patches but it is not so great. The new "smokes" pocket is a great disincentive to getting the patches on.

 

This has been a great discussion. Ideas I like:

 

(1)Letting younger guys do it --the best candidate for the job.

(2)Working with the ASPL, he does the check off. Goal is to work on the boy not the requirement check off.

(3)Display Board. More recognition over all.

(4)More flexibility in positions; a scout volunteered to be our "health officer" (food safety and first aid stuff) and I am inclined to let them do that sort of thing. I bet if we had a "fire master" there would be a line a mile long.

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

That DOES sound like fun. They could be responsible for training Scouts in building fires and fire safety.

 

Me! Me! Meeeee!

[Eagle92]

In regards to PORs remaining on after they are finished with the job, does your units do a uniform regularly? Yes my troop did one every week and it was part of the patrol of the year competition.

 

But also there was an expectation that you only wore the POR you were in, not any past ones. And gentle reminders form the SPL tended to work.

 

Me personally I don't like velcro on the uniforms, but I've seen it used by adults.

[Tampa Turtle]

We have almost weekly uniform competitions with the SPL awarding SM-supplied prizes for the most complete and correct outfit. Some boys getting very competitive (winners been decided on issues like brown shoes, watch, pen).

 

I have also told a few boys "lets get that updated". SPL almost had a sewing session one week (I like that idea). A boy without the correct rank and position cannot sit for BOR.

[Twocubdad]

If ASPL is not a leadership/supervisory position then what? Hanging around in case the SPL gets hit by a bus?

 

We try to incorporate a leadership element into all troop positions. Our ASPL-Administration supervise the Troop Scribe, Librarian, Quartermaster, Historian, etc. ASPL-Troop Guided is supervises the Troop Guides and plans program/activities for the new Scout patrols. ASPL-Program is responsible for outings and activities and The SPL supervises the PLs.

 

Troop Scribe and Quartermaster are responsible to work with the Patrol Scribes and QMs to help them do their jobs. For example, PQMs are responsible for their patrol gear, but TQM works with them to make sure consumables are replaced, repairs handled and does semi-annual inventories the same time we do PL elections. The TQM considers the PQMs his "staff" and goes to them when he needs help with a reorganization/clean out of the storage area.

[Tampa Turtle]

TwoCub,

 

Sounds like you have a large Troop as well...Yes we could have done what you did. We had 3 ASPL's but they were all "just in case". More than enough work to spread around. I like the Troop Guide, Program, and Supervisory division. I guess we can present that option to the next SPL.

 

We have had the TQM and PQM's. While it has not gone as well as we liked we have made good progress with 1/2 the PQM's. We give the PQM's POR credit as it is big job with a lot of responsibility. The TQM is a real driver and gear head. We now do mostly Patrol gear and if a patrol doesn't pack their gear --so sad, too bad. The patrol boxes and gear are getting well marked with individual patrol colors by the active patrols so that is a good sign.

[Twocubdad]

Yeah, same system with the division of patrol equipment. When I came in as SM, everything was on shelves in the back and each patrol would draw what they needed for a campout. Left the pots dirty? Broke a tent pole? No problem. Throw it back on the shelf. Odds are low you'll get that same piece of equipment next month.

 

Now everything is labeled with numbers and/or colors and permanently assigned to the patrols. We've always had plastic patrol totes, but we built lockers so even bulkier items like tents and stoves are assigned to patrols. It's made a huge difference in accountability.

[Stosh]

I had a small troop and having all the POR's was rather dumb to say the least. So in order to fulfill the requirement of 6 months of POR, the boys didn't wear any patches and the positions rolled around among them. This campout one boy comes forwards, organizes it, his buddy lines up the gear, someone else needing to do a menu/serve as patrol cook, takes on that responsibility, someone else turns in the reservation and lines up adult drivers, etc. The next campout, another boy steps up to organize it, his buddy lines up the gear, etc. etc. etc. Someone who so desires, takes on the popcorn sales/fund drive and works on that for 6 months, someone else organizes a service project (learning as a test trial for an Eagle Project), yet another boy finds a summer camp, registers everyone, lines up their MB's, goes to the Committee and submits a bill for the registration fee and has them send it in, etc.

 

At the end of 6 months, when a boy moves up in rank, he simply identifies all the work he has done since his last advancement. At the SMC it is reviewed and organized so the boy can go into the BOR and brag about all the stuff he has taken on over the past several months to serve the troop in POR position(s). I don't think it is adding or subtracting from the requirement of serving in a POR position if it entails multiple POR's. Surely there are many cases that can be made that certain POR's do NOT have 6 months of work surrounding them and those positions are easily attained on a popularity vote or buddy assignments from their buddy being elected as an SPL.

 

Too often I hear so-and-so wore the patch and didn't do the work. What if the work of SPL was being done on a rotation basis by 3 boys? The rest of the 6 months, they might have done part-time work as a Scribe and did Bugling on the side. The next guy did SPL for an activity, but also did some Historian work to fill up the time his buddy was SPL, and then served as Chaplain's Aide for a few minutes at each flag ceremony by offering a devotion or prayer. And yet another boy served as SPL for summer camp because he organized it. But was also a DC with the local Pack in his "spare" time.

 

The practice of the BOR asking the boys what they did for POR requirement was eventually curtailed to just a few minutes, because the boys could kill off the whole BOR time just telling the Board all the stuff they did since their last advancement.

 

Be careful with this approach because parents with boys who don't do anything in the troop will find their boy woefully lacking when it comes time for their BOR's. It can be very embarrassing for their boy to admit they didn't do anything towards the POR requirement. As I mentioned in earlier posts, I was removed as SM from this troop because I expected too much leadership and youth responsibility from the boys. Parents with boys who didn't work took up arms and that was the end of that, and me.

 

Stosh

[Twocubdad]

Off topic a bit, Stosh, but as our troop improves our program for the new Scouts and backs away from a first year First Class program, I see that same attitude among the parents of the Scouts who tend to lag behind the others in reaching first class. I have four or five Second Class Scouts who are approaching their second year in the troop. Most are lacking the First Class cooking requirements which has a fairly high correlation with spotty attendance on campouts. I've had two or three parents recently ask me what Dear Sweet Thing has to do to finish First Class. I'd like to say, "show up and finish the requirements," but you know how that goes.

 

Somehow it's our responsibility to chase after DST and make him complete the requirements.

 

 

[qwazse]

We have to direct our parents to their boys, saying "the first requirement is that your boy needs to know his requirements." Second, we tell the parents that their boys are doing just fine and we love having them around. (We don't have many slackers. Or, rather, their slacking matches their age.) Thirdly, we point them to Joe eagle scout who had a girlfriend (sometimes two, the low-maintenance one had a Rocket 350 engine) and advanced; therefore, we are in no rush to push a boy before "the fumes" set it. If Joe could juggle everything and make it, so could little junior.

 

We do this respectfully and patiently over repeated conversations. Regardless if the next step is a skill, a POR, or Scout Spirit.

 

The goal is to get parents to stop feeling like they are pushing a wheelbarrow uphill all the time and start appreciating their son maturing and climbing the trail on his own.

[Chippewa29]

My troop has had some similar issues with certain Scouts who just take a position and don't do anything so they can either wear a patch or get credit for their next rank. We are currently implementing a system we hope will help improve job performance.

 

Each POR has a set of performance objectives based on their responsibilities. Obviously, the SPL description is much different than the historian, librarian,etc. In each objective, they are rated from 1 (poor) to 5 (outstanding). There are very clear descriptions of what it takes to get each rating. Each month, every youth leader is evaluated by their immediate superior youth leader with the guidance of an adult advisor. This way, each month, the Scout in the POR knows how he is doing.

 

During this six month term, the Scouts are getting evaluated and seeing what their score is. Next term, the scores will actually count. If they get below a 2.5 (out of 5) average score for the month, they won't get credit toward advancement. If they get below a 2.5 two months in a row or three times in a six month term, they can be removed from their office and receive no credit at all for any of that term.

 

The evaluations are starting to take hold and helping the Scouts to realize how they are doing each month. The purpose of the evaluations is to help the Scouts realize what they need to do and to help their superiors realize where that Scout needs to be trained and helped to improve.

 

I hope this provides you with some of the answers you are looking for. Good luck.

[Tampa Turtle]

Chippewa29,

 

Interesting.

 

I might show this to the ASPL as a tool. If you could send me something. Could you contact me via private message?

[Tampa Turtle]

I want to thank everyone for some great clarity and ideas. I have passed my ideas on to the SM and SPL and plan on working on training the next ASPL on working with the POR's.

 

I will be making the "no more automatic POR check-offs speech" to the parent soon, too.