chaoman45 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Seeing as how an application could disrupt the family, I would avoid it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abel Magwitch Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Interesting post. I can see several dilemmas here. Some observations: The BSA leaves their policy on the application somewhat vague. In this day and age of illegal immigrants, you would think that the BSA would have made it clear on the application whether they accepted or did not accept illegal aliens. The word reside has come up. There are in fact illegal immigrants that own their own houses in the USA. So yes, an illegal immigrant can in fact reside in the good ole USA. Here is just one of many links to back up this claim. http://realty4all.com/buy-homes/how-are-illegal-aliens-able-to-buy-homes But back to the application. If I had to make a guess, I would have to say that if the BSA knows it can make more money (even by having illegal immigrants registering and paying their registration fee), it will do so. Who cares if the Assistant Scoutmaster is an illegal immigrant as long as the BSA gets its membership fee. I would love the author of this post to contact nation and see if national will even respond to his question. Ask the BSA for clarification. Write to Scouting magazine. Then repost whether you received a reply or not. Or perhaps one of the many active professionals who read the forums would like to post the answer and save the readers a lot of time. Finally, there are some posts here that focus on the illegal immigrant only. Illegal aliens are criminals. Let me add this other perspective Why does this country have so many undocumented immigrants? IMHO its because there are plenty of business owners willing to hire them illegally. These business owners are making out like bandits on their taxes and are making some pretty hefty profits by not having to pay their illegal employees decent wage. If there was nobody willing to illegally hire illegal immigrants, I do not believe that this country would be in this situation. But I don't hear that much outcry concerning the holding accountable of the tax cheating businesses who offer employment to illegal immigrants. Greed is a powerful thing. It is greed which perpetuates our country's illegal immigrant dilemma.(This message has been edited by abel magwitch) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaoman45 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 you would think that the BSA would have made it clear on the application whether they accepted or did not accept illegal aliens But they have for over 100 years. Now, whether or not National enforces their own policies is another issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaoman45 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Why isn't the forum accepting my bb coding? >=| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartHumphries Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 I'm happy with what I know, thanks. How do I know it and what am I doing about it now? Frankly, in as nice a way as I can say it, I don't think it's anyone's business here. Thanks for the advice, it's been much appreciated. Any more advice is always welcomed. (This message has been edited by BartHumphries) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Use the greater than / less than signs, not brackets.(This message has been edited by shortridge) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDPT00 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Interesting question ... interesting responses. When we deal with legal and/or ethical issues from afar, we seem to know what to do. I see a few black and white answers, but I haven't seen anyone say they'd call Immigration and have this guy arrested. When it comes to youth protection issues, we all seem to think we know what we would have done, right? When it comes to Penn Stated, we would have all done the right thing, right? These are exactly the kinds of questions we should pose to our Scouts. We do it in NYLT (I don't use what's in the book, but rather make it more realisitic and difficult). Ask your Scouts this same question. Listen to their answers. This is how we teach Ideals. BDPT00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 > I don't doubt that their are illegals who own houses. But they are in the countrty illegally and don't legally "reside" here I suggest. They are subject to arrest and deportation at any time. I'm actively interested in recruiting families to Scouting whether they are here are not. But I don't think illegals are entitled to be BSA leaders. If someone has an on topic reference to prove that wrong, I'd be glad to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 "But I don't think illegals are entitled to be BSA leaders." I am not so sure "legals" are "entitled" to be BSA leaders either... its not a right, its a privilege Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Turning a blind eye to these matters is not only irresponsible, but it endangers the sensibilities of the young men we serve as examples for. Bah, humbug! What a load of balderdash. Kids are perfectly capable of understanding judgment calls, and routinely roll their eyes at adults who get all black-and-white over procedural nonsense. We as a nation routinely turn a blind eye to lawbreaking of all sorts. Just look at what the average speed is on the highways. . Da more important example is the example of responsible, prudent compassion we show the sojourner in our midst. Every variety of foreigners are allowed to own every variety of property in da U.S. Just like as a U.S. citizen you're allowed to own a vacation home in Bermuda or a company in Australia. Why would it be otherwise? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWOMORROWS Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Calling an illegal alien an undocumented immigrant is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I think some folks are confusing "foreign resident" with "illegal alien". If a person was a foreign resident why not? In Tampa we have CENTCOM and SOCOM and all sorts of foreign military with kids staying for 2 to 4 year postings. I have met former Scouts and Scouters from the UK, Jordan, Australia, Norway, etc. What Scout wouldn't want an ASM whose day job was a SAS survival instructor (yeah he lives down the street) As for illegal aliens most of the ones I have met through my government jobs (mostly migrants, a few students) are very skittish about signing ANY form that might call attention to their status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blancmange Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I'm not necessarily endorsing undocumented aliens as scout leaders, but just wanted to point out that merely being an illegal alien in the country is not necessarily a crime. Crossing the border illegally is a crime. Being caught in the country after having been previously deported is a crime. But merely being in the country without permission is not a crime in and of itself, and it is not accurate to brand such individuals as criminals. Thousands of people cross the border legally every day, either with visas or legally without them, and many of them overstay their welcome, but they are not criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC9DDI Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 but just wanted to point out that merely being an illegal alien in the country is not necessarily a crime. How do you figure? I'm a fairly liberal person on the whole immigration issue, and I certainly have no problem with immigrants of any variety working with the Scouting program... but at the same time you need to be realistic about these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blancmange Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 >>>>but just wanted to point out that merely being an illegal alien in the country is not necessarily a crime. How do you figure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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