illegal alien adult leader?

[BartHumphries]

So, the father of a boy is an illegal alien. Is it possible for him to be an adult leader, an Assistant Scoutmaster? I, personally, don't think this conflicts with my duty to my country -- I think it's better for the boy and his mother (both citizens) to have the father around, but lets not get sidetracked by this. As long as he takes youth protection en espaol, he can come to all the meetings and go on all the campouts, right?

[Oak Tree]

He can definitely come to the meetings and go on the campouts.

 

I don't know what will happen with the background checks that BSA runs on adult leader applications.

[TWOMORROWS]

An illegal alien is a criminal. I do not want criminals as leaders in my son's troop.

[BS-87]

The question is if he's applying for a visa, or the naturalization process.

 

If he's just here illegally, crossing his fingers and hoping he doesn't get deported, then I think it is a duty to country to protect the sanctity of our borders and report him.

 

It doesn't matter if he's Swede, Cuban, Chinese, or Canadian. If he's in the country illegally, he is violating our borders in a criminal manner that should offend every citizen.

[Papadaddy]

Pretty clear to me:

From the Adult Application:

 

Adult citizens, or adult noncitizens who reside within the country, may register with the Boy Scouts of America in any capacity if they agree to abide by the Scout Oath or Promise and the Scout Law, to respect and obey the laws of the United States of

America, and to subscribe to the precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle.

[5yearscouter]

Without a SSN the application won't go thru.

if he's here illegally, then he doesn't have a SSN.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, this issue has become so emotionally charged that it's hard for people to be rational about it. "Sanctity"? Only God is Holy. Somehow, in da grand scheme of things, a father who wants to be with and support his family just doesn't seem to me to be the equivalent of holding up a liquor store, committing membership fraud in a NFP organization, or selling junk derivatives that yeh claim are AAA bonds.

 

Given da policies of the BSA and the emotionally charged nature of the thing, I think you're best not registering him until he finds a way to complete da green card or naturalization process. Of course, he can continue to participate as a parent.

 

If I may suggest, yeh might take a look about to see if there's a competent immigration attorney in your area who might be able to help da family. With both his wife and son being U.S. citizens in residence, he should be able to take da steps to normalize his status in relatively short order (bureaucratic time, that is). Often folks are "illegal" only because no one has helped 'em with da paperwork process.

 

Beavah

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

I agree, that's clear. He can't register since he doesn't "reside" in the United States. Perhaps that's unfortunate, but he can't be a registered leader.

[scoutingagain]

Agree with Beav. Unless he's legally documented to live here I wouldn't submit an application for him. The helpful, courtious and kind thing to do would be, as Beav notes, to help him through the process to be able to stay here legally with his family. If his wife and son are citizens, unless he's on a watch list, or committed a crime, he should be able to get resident status. He just needs to go through the proper channels.

 

SA

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

So, in a few years, the father of a prospective Webelos scout is visiting and its an INS agent/worker, would you place the responsibility on that person to either turn in or arrest or whatever somebody's dad? Secrets never turn out well

 

Then again, so an IMS agent never is a father or mother in the troop. The collective you of the troop adults are however showing the youth that its ok to look the other way. Looking the other way is a time honored tradition that really doesnt hurt anyone it lets the youth know that if following the rules in incovenient than you actually don't have to follow them if everybody will just look the other way(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[KC9DDI]

Without stirring the already overly emotional pot, might I just ask:

 

If all that's standing between the adult and a leadership position is some paperwork and bureaucracy (which I'll admit is a necessary evil in this case)... is that really a good enough reason to exclude him from serving as an ASM in your program?

 

Then again, BartHumphries really asked two separate questions:

 

1) Can he register as an ASM? The answer is "doubtful," and that's even before you start trying to redefine simple words like "reside." The absence of an SSN that is prerequisite for a background check will most likely hold up his application.

 

2) Can he come to all the meetings, and attend all the campouts? I don't see any reason why not. In fact, as we learned repeatedly over in the OA forum, anything that might discourage a parent from having access to his or her child on a Scouting activity is VERBOTEN!

[momof2cubs]

Did he actually tell you he was in the country illegally or is it just something that's known around the neighborhood? What makes him illegal? He doesn't have a green card? Maybe he has a visa that allows him to be here? People make all sorts of assumptions, maybe he is just not here in a permanent status...not necessarily illegally.

 

At any rate, the BSA application requires a SSN. If he doesn't have one..it probably won't go through. But for the record: you CAN have a SSN and still not be allowed to work in the US. My mom and my siblings had a SSN through an H1 visa. We were here legally and so was my dad, but he was the only one allowed to work. And no, we didn't jump the or "violated the sanctity of the borders". My father got transferred for work. Eventually, we became permanent residents and after that citizens.

[BartHumphries]

Thanks for the responses.

[BS-87]

momof2cubs - It seems you're taking my sentiments as hostile towards migrant workers with visas or legal immigrants. That's simply not the case.

 

In reality, more work visas should be given because there's a demand for the labor that outpaces the supply of legally residing migrant workers.

 

However, when someone comes here illegally, they begin a series of illegal activities. What's a shame is that many of those who illegally enter the country become identity thieves, and in many cases steal and assume the SSN of children. This is to prevent their ID theft from being noticed for a number of years.

 

It sounds as though your immigration story is an inspiring one, as it occurred completely legally. For those that do not, that is a violation of Americans sovereign borders, and that is not something that can be disputed. It is a matter of fact that illegal entry into this country, or any country, is criminal activity. It is a matter of fact that the growing trend in ID theft is to accomodate illegal immigration. It is a matter of fact that citizenship itself is threatened by illegal immigration. Turning a blind eye to these matters is not only irresponsible, but it endangers the sensibilities of the young men we serve as examples for.

[momof2cubs]

I'm not taking it as anything. I'm simply explaining that there are many ways to be in this country legally that don't require a green card or a passport. I started my post by trying to understand how the poster knew this dad was an illegal alien. A lot of time people make assumptions. I was just trying to figure out how exactly he knew. And I was also pointing out that lack of a SSN doesn't indicate illegal status, just like having one doesn't mean you are allowed to work here. I think the OP needs to get all his facts, that's all.

 

If in fact this dad is here illegally, I wouldn't put the application through. Not because I have moral problems with it, but because it could endanger the unit and the charter org. Also, it is very likely that it could alert the authorities. In other words, it's not doing dad any favors.

 

I actually don't have a strong opinion on illegal immigration either way. On one hand, I really cannot condone any kind of illegal activity. On the other hand, 99.999999% of people that "jump borders" do so because they are trying to provide a better life for their children.

 

A spin off thread could be a discussion of what would you (general "you") do if you found out one of your scouts (a child) is here illegally. Maybe it is not so cut and dry at that point. I don't know.