Deep Pocket Troops

[Beavah]

On the comment of Troop expecting parents to have deep pocket ... yep, mine does. Very minimal fundraising ...

 

Yah, I've seen some of this, eh? And I'll be honest, it does seem to be more common than "back in the day".

 

I used to wonder about it, but then I've seen what hockey programs and travel team sports programs and school band trips charge, and I'm just about floored. Ever take a look at what a week of private or Christian summer camp costs?

 

I hear a lot of frustration with popcorn, and see a lot of "popcorn burnout" that costs us families whose two working parents are relieved to finally be "done" at the end of Cubs. Time for a lot of families is more valuable than money, and they seem happy to write a check rather than spend a weekend at da Car Wash.

 

What do folks think? What do yeh see in your area?

 

Beavah

 

[SeattlePioneer]

I designed our program to give families a choice.

 

If they wish, they Pay $60/year for pack membership which includes a good many activities such as the Pinewood Derby. Other activities like day camp are an added expense.

 

Or families can sell popcorn if they wish. If they sell $200 they get the pack membership, and for additional amounts they get 25% of the added sales in a Scout Account they can use for uniforms, day camp or other Scout expenses.

 

That's working for us well this year, where with the Scout account option we tripled our popcorn sales over last year to about $8,000.

[acco40]

I think a good unit accepts the fact that some families are time rich and cash poor. Others are time poor and cash rich so to speak. They give families the option of how they want to participate in fundraising. At the Boy Scout level, the majority of the fundraising should go to the boys scout account IMO.

[Lisabob]

To be fair though, some families are both time- and cash-poor. What do they do?

 

If you are a single parent, working 3 part time jobs to get by, in an area where family networks and community ties are thin and most others are also poor, then relying on family or neighbors to support fund raising is a heck of a challenge. So is just writing a check. Same with the family where one/both parents lost their job and are going through foreclosure.

 

Units in comfortable suburbs tend to forget this fact, although recent studies confirm that most of the newly poor are located in suburban areas - they are just not that visible. Units in inner cities and poorer rural areas seem much better attuned to this fact, perhaps due to long experience interacting with the reality of American poverty. Or anyway, that is my observation.

 

 

[CricketEagle]

Deep Pocket troops, my opinion is. "what ever".

I am more concerned with setting a reasonable price for participation and then giving that number out far in advance for bigger trips.

That way "maybe" the boys can earn their way. Heck most the scout camps in the area are still in the $300 to $400 for a week. Most of our troops boys have the opportunity to earn a lot of scout money during a 5 day long yearly project that we do. If they can show up, many do not have to pay much for the year. A few truly poor get sponsored, by the troop or a few of the local parishes.

Of course one problem with boys earning their own money is trying to find a boy that will cut grass, shovel snow etc. I dont know were any of these boys can earn money now. Where I live, all these jobs are taken up by professional crews.

Regarding Popcorn sales: I do appreciate the skills my sons learned while going door to door. However, with the elimination of the tins, I no longer see the value in the product. So I admit to just writing a check this year. I cannot afford the time it takes to deliver the popcorn.

 

[Twocubdad]

I seem to be much more concerned about the cost of Scouting than anyone else in the troop. I work to try and keep costs down, find alternate funding sources and fundraising opportunities, but tend to get a "whatever" response from troop families.

Both popcorn sales and camp cards proceeds go 100% to cover the cost of summer camp, high adventure trips and even funding for Eagle projects. Participation is always minimal.

[Eagle92]

One of the things I remember from my old BSHB is that a Scout pays his own way. I know I busted butt to stay in scouting, as I couldn't afford it. My troop sponsored me to attend BA22, paying for 1/2 the fee. BUT there was a committment to make to the troop. Also I almost didn't go to Jambo and Canada at the last minute. even busting butt, I ended up a little short. I got a sponsor with no strings attach except have fun, and give back to scouting.

 

I've been trying to give back to scouting for the past 19 years now, and I don't think I'll ever be able to pay back what that trip meant to me even if I live to see BSA's bicentennial.

 

I know some troops with deep pockets, and I do not begrudge them those pockets either. But I do wish the scouts would earn their way as I think they appreciate the trip more.

[Basementdweller]

I am guessing that our troop runs the most frugal program around. Our camp outs are $10 a head, this covers gas and propane and the occasional campsite fee.

 

 

We have troops that have access to airplanes for cryin out loud. The one fellow was talking about flying to summer camp. Troop owned buses, trailers, and high end gear.

 

I cannot imagine what mom and dad make a year.

 

Heck my youth experience. Our troop did not own much more than a patrol box.....I had a tent I bought from JcPenny for $29.

 

I am guessing that a troop that flys to summer camp have a much different opinion on what scouting is than my boys who pile into our trucks and throw their packs into the bed and go to summer camp.

 

I also understand that my boys if they are lucky will be trades men, truck drivers or firemen, where the rich troops scouts will be executives, company reps or trust fund kids......Not hatin, just sayin I understand that changing economic classes is nearly impossible.

 

 

I wonder whose scouting experience is richer????

[Tampa Turtle]

My workplace allows me some flexibility for scouting but pays poorly so I am time-rich and cash-poor. Most of the family's in our Troop are the opposite so we are usually pretty well funded for equipment. We still make the boys do fundraisers, have scholarships, and help some kids along. We do lose some boys because of costs; I am usually upfront. However some of these families do little league and other activities.

 

We try to raise money for specific purposes, i.e. a new trailer, etc than build up a big war-chest. Then the tendency is to find a use for the money whether we really should or not.

 

I do think scouting is more expensive than in the past; especially equipment-wise. I keep encouraging more "dirt-bagging" when possible.

[Eagledad]

>>Units in comfortable suburbs tend to forget this fact,

[Basementdweller]

Ya know Barry, the scouts know who is rich or not. It is very apparent at summer camp. The troops zipping along in Gators or the rest of us eating their dust. The troops that show up in a bus, not school, and tandem axle trailer painted to match

 

Last summer there was a comment from a troop from a very wealthy community, not a suburb, to one of my scouts regarding vocational training and him cleaning our table after lunch. There was a half hearted apology......but that is how we are viewed.

 

Most of my scouts have skin colors other than white

[Eagle92]

What Base's troop is encounering is not the program. The comments are not scoutlike at all.

 

As you know I was one of those scouts who busted butt at fundraisers to support my scouting career. I was fortunate in that although the unit ended up in a very wealthy part of the suburbs by the end of my career, it started in the lower and middle class neighborhoods, and took all comers. When you joined the troop,it didn't matter if your dad was the repo man, carpet salesman, the career sailor, the cardiologist, nautical engineer, or, my personal favorite, the VP of the local Anheuser Buscher bottler, everyone was treated equally. And that is how scouting should be.

 

But I have seen the actions and heard the comments and remarks. Heck I was subject to a few myself. It's not scoutlike, it's demeaning, and really has no place in scouting.

[resqman]

Why must scouting be inexpensive? My son's participate in scouting because it is fun with a goal. Certainly the troop can accomplish many of the goals in mismatched street clothes, using worn out gear, and camping in nearby campgrounds. But why limit outselves?

 

My sons played on sports teams. They required mulitple uniforms, outerwear, warmup uniforms, practice uniforms, gear bags, special footware, and when they traveled, they stayed in nice hotels. One son was a member of a travel sports team so every weekend 8 months of the year he had a game within a 3 hr drive radius. 8am game meant the entire team traveled the night before, spent the night in a hotel, ate in restaurants all weekend, etc. Ran about $5000 a year for all costs.

 

We spend about $600 a year for summer camp, camping trips, dues, activity fees etc. for one son to be in scouts. High Adventure add another $1500 per year. 4 years of scouting plus 2 high adventure trips is still less than a single year of sports. We feel like we are getting a deal!

 

The troop I serve has fundraising events. We strongly encourage the lads to raise their own funds. We let parents know the costs of joining the troop before they sign up. The parents make the decision to fund the program by allowing the child to join the troop and continue to pay for ongoing costs. If the parents don't like the costs, they can become more involved in the fundraising or switch troops.

 

Several years ago we had parents complaining about the costs of weekend camping. We starting putting a breakdown of the costs of each trip on the permission slip. We also tried to alternate months between local trips and more costly trips. Once parents saw the breakdown, the complaints disappeared. Yes, we have scouts who can't pay for summer camp and the troop has a campership fund for those who need it.

 

Scouts is not free. To compete with other programs, don't afraid to think big and spend accordingly.

[KC9DDI]

I can see both sides of the issue.

 

The troop that I was involved in as a youth put a lot of emphasis on fund raising. We'd do the Popcorn and Wreath sales during the winter, and then a handful of other fundraisers throughout the year - probably 5-6 per year. The nice part of that was that out-of-pocket expenses were pretty minimal for annual dues and events. Dues were whatever National was charging at the time ($12 or so), campouts were generally in the $10-$12 range. Summer camp cost whatever the camp charged - the troop didn't add on anything on top of that. Everything else was paid for by the troop - repair and maintenance of the troop's property, reimbursement for drivers' gas mileage, camp rental fees that weren't covered by the camp out fee, advancements, awards, etc. The advantage was that the overall program was very cost effective for the individual families. The downside is that a lot of time was spent fundraising.

 

A neighboring troop took a different approach - they charged a high annual fee (like $250 or so), and higher montly camping fees ($15-$25 range). But they did NO fundraising. (I think they may have allowed Scouts who wanted to do popcorn to do so, but the troop didn't invest much time in it, nor did they require it.) They swore by this method - they made a good point that they could focus more time on having a quality program, and doing "Scout" things, rather than fundraising. They also didn't have to deal with burdening a volunteer(s) with coordinating fundraisers. Apparently even the parents liked it - they'd rather just fork over some additional cash rather than supervise door-to-door sales, or another full day of Scouting fundraising.

 

I guess I can see both sides of the argument. My question is, is there any value to fundraising beyond just raising funds? Maybe it somehow ties in with "A Scout Is Thrifty." But, from the unit's stand point, I don't think they need to care where the money came from - whether the parents are writing a check once a year, or whether the kids are going out fundraising once a month. And, if there's no benefit to the kids from having to do fundraising, I guess I don't see a problem with doing away with it.

[Tampa Turtle]

Cost is a real issue for me. I do not own 2nd family car so the those funds for purchase and upkeep go directly into scouting. The family "margin" all goes into scouting. I will readily admit is worth the money. Even with my boys fundraising if costs go up too much someone is dropping out. Perhaps me to do more 2nd job work.

 

As for other sports or hobbies costing much more that may be true but I would never let my boys do them for that same reason.