Boy Led Troop

[True Believer]

Hello Everyone. I have been viewing this site for some time, and thought I should jump in here and participate. I am a Scoutmaster of a Troop in NJ, which has emphasized "Boy Led" over the past few years. The problem is that the fire hasn't caught on. While some of the scouts seem to appreciate the boy run program, I can't seem to get many of the boy-leaders to do what they say they are going to do. We have PLC's which produce some good ideas, but the scouts assigned, don't follow through. The SPL can't shake them (I have seen this with the last four SPL's, so it's not the current SPL's issue). If the PL's DO something, then it is usually at the very last minute, and only the bare minimum is done.

 

I am being told that there is some generational issue here. We seem to be the only program where there is no adult badgering them, setting goals and telling them what to do and how to do it. So, the scouts do not know how to respond to our boy-led thing. They don't even react to helpful criticism or encouragement. Unless an adult gives them a swift kick in the posterior, nothing will get done. Naturally, the boys complain that the meetings are boring.

 

I can see why many of the local Troops are NOT boy led, but I don't want to go there. I would not be doing any good for the boys. Webelos parents know our reputation as being boy-led, and openly question us about its usefulness. Guess which troops the Webelos join?

 

I'm at a cross-road here, and would appreciate any and all advice.

Thank you all.

[Apache Bob]

It is hard some of the times but stay with it. It is much easier to run the troop yourself than let the boys run it.

The way things are taught now days the boys are many times given everything without them doing anything. So you have to spend alot of your time teaching them how to lead and to take charge.

Keep the faith.

[Eamonn]

Hi and Welcome,

It sounds like you have been plugging away at this youth led thing for a while.

Much as many of us would like it, sadly there is no Leadership Fairy Godmother. It is not going to happen just because we want it to happen.

Kinda like wanting to get rich. We work hard, save as much as we can and then something comes along and we seem to be back where we started.

A few pointers (For what they might be worth.)

* Don't give up.

It really is worth the effort. Even if you never arrive at where you think you might want to be, the journey is worth the effort.

*Don't waste time beating yourself up when you don't see the results.

Beating yourself up is never a good idea and could lead to you burning yourself out.

* If you have taken the BSA training's? See if you can get hold of some of the material and go over it again. If you haven't taken the trainings? Try and make time to get there.

* Hold people accountable.

You say that the PLC is coming forward with ideas. This is wonderful. Many of us have sat through PLC meetings where the Scouts have that "Deer caught in the headlights" look.

When they say what they want. Have them write down who is going to do what.

The Ship wanted to do a fund raiser. They (With some prompting from me) came up with having a hoagie sale. The Boatswain called the borough and came up with a date that worked. He then asked someone to be the "Project Leader". The project leader broke what needed to be done into bite sized chunks.

One person was responsible for phoning the hoagie company and ordering the hoagies and accepting the delivery. This also entailed finding out how many Scouts would be selling them and making an order sheet.

One person was responsible for making signs and getting the word out. Contacting the local newspaper and that sort of thing.

The Boatswain was responsible for selling the idea of why we needed a sale to the rest of the Ship.

The Quarterdeck was in charge of what the money raised would be used for.

As Skipper I kept in contact with the Boatswain, asking what was being done? Asking if he had checked? Pushing him to make sure what was to be done was being done.

After the sale we met and looked at what worked and what didn't.

Was having a sale the day before Mothers Day such a great idea?

Could we have maybe made the hoagies ourselves? What might this entail? Do we have the people and a place to take this on?

Of course after the sale we went out of our way to ensure that the people who did a good job were thanked and recognized.

* Be ready for "Just Because"!

Just because it hasn't worked in the past is no reason to think that it isn't going to work this time and just because it did work is no reason to think it will work.

Youth leaders come and go, even the youth we have get involved in different things. That great hard working Scout who never messed up takes on more than he can manage and even though he says he is going to do something, somehow gets overwhelmed with doing too much. This boils down to you knowing the Scouts.

* Use the PLC.

The Scouts have an idea of what they want to do, but don't have the skills to get it done.

Rather than training the entire Troop (Ship) Train the youth leaders in the skill and have them pass it on.

PLC meetings can be a lot more fun if the Scouts are doing something and not just sitting around your kitchen table.

* Train the adults.

When a Scouts asks an ASM something (Almost anything!!) The correct answer is always "Have you asked your PL?".

Establish what might be seen as a chain of command (Even though it's not!) A Scout goes to his PL the PL goes to the SPL and the SPL goes to an adult leader.

* Remember "Adults are perfect, Scouts are human"

Sure if a group of adults take on a project, chance are that they will do a perfect job.

Scouts on the other hand, have a good chance of messing up!

But at the end of the day we are in the business of taring youth not having every thing go perfectly.

* Make use of reflections.

Involving everyone or at times just the youth leaders to examine what happened, without pointing fingers or fixing blame in a very safe way (No put downs.) Can allow everyone the opportunity to see how everyone plays a part in making things work or at times not work.

* Have fun.

Keep in mind that a Scout is cheerful.

Our youth members are not little adults, they don't always see things as we do and are still learning.

Enjoy the time you get to spend with them, enjoy watching them grow and develop. Laugh with them (Never at them) when things don't go as well as maybe they could or should have.

We all learn from our mistakes.

Eamonn.

 

 

[Kudu]

Welcome to the forums, True Believer!

 

Your nickname is the perfect embodiment of the two-edged sword of "Boy Led."

 

On one edge of the sword, if you want to get to a place where your Scouts never hear an adult voice at weekly meetings from 7 PM until the Scoutmaster Minute at 8:25, then you MUST be a "True Believer" when everyone around you says that your particular group of boys is NOT really capable of running the Troop.

 

BUT

 

There is NOTHING SWEETER than pulling into a Camporee and watching all the yelling adults in the surrounding campsites steal glances at your Junior Leaders as they themselves set up the campsite while their quiet adult leaders sit and drink coffee.

 

Nothing sweeter!

 

ON THE OTHER HAND, the term "True Believer" sometimes describes a person who ignores his own experience because he believes in some official theory that is just not true.

 

That is the other edge of the sword.

 

For instance, the "Patrol System" of Baden-Powell and the "Patrol Method" of the BSA's "Green Bar Bill" did NOT include regular elections!

 

The central idea in both systems was to stick with the Patrol Leaders who had the most talent.

 

If you are honest with yourself, I think you will agree that boys who could actually run your Troop are probably as rare as a good Little League pitcher.

 

Think back to when you were a kid. What a wonderful world it was if your pitcher could strike out most of an opposing team (and if your best relief pitcher did not stink too bad). If your team had TWO great pitchers, then you were going to be on national TV in August!

 

Roughly the same ratio exists in Boy Scout Troops. If you are lucky you have ONE really gifted Boy Leader. The trick is to find him. In an adult-run Troop, he is usually one of the trouble-makers, so most adults will do everything in their power to discourage him.

 

But as Baden-Powell wrote:

 

"One of our methods in the Scout movement for taming a hooligan is to appoint him head of a Patrol. He has all the necessary initiative, the spirit and the magnetism for leadership, and when responsibility is thus put upon him it gives him the outlet he needs for his exuberance of activity, but gives it in a right direction."

 

I look for 1) Above average IQ, 2) A love of camping to the point of arranging his other interests so they do not conflict with monthly campouts, 3) A natural sense of fairness that can be described as Scout Law, 4) a bearing that discourages other Scouts from intimidating him when adults are not around.

 

The trick is to follow Baden-Powell and Green Bar Bill's advice and find a way to get him into a Patrol Leader position.

 

Once you have ONE real leader in the position of Patrol Leader in an adult-led Troop, and then you start to defer to him as much as possible. The other Patrol Leaders will notice and start to compete with him and you will have some REAL Patrols.

 

Scouting is not as complicated as some people think it is. Boys figure it out right away if they have one example to follow.

 

To move from Boy Led Troop to Boy Led Patrols, you must physically spread those Patrols apart at monthly campouts, with the most competent Patrols camping the furthest away from the adults.

 

You will hear many different and opposing "True Believer" theories here because you can get to different flavors of "Boy Led" through a number of different paths.

 

As an "old-school" true believer, I recommend the most comprehensive book about Scouting ever written: William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's third edition of Handbook for Scoutmasters.

 

The book is 944 pages longer than the current watered-down edition!

 

This is the book to buy if you want to understand how the BSA expected Scoutmasters to train Patrol Leaders how to run what the BSA defined as a "Real Patrol" using outdoor hiking and camping Scoutcraft adventure skills rather than "one minute manger" business formulas.

 

You can find used copies for less than $10 per volume at AddAll.

 

See:

 

http://tinyurl.com/5sjvz3

 

IMPORTANT: To find the correct edition, look for "Volume 1" or "Volume 2" in the description, starting on "page 2" of the above URL!

 

The later 1940s printings of the 3rd edition include the Patrol Leader Training course, "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol":

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm

 

[Knight]

I'm taking your advice, Kudu and buying old copies of the third edition.

 

Thanks.

[ozemu]

Today's young people are used to immediate reward and a 3 second attention span. Not their fault.

 

Train them.

 

I do not know what the handbooks say - look at my bio. But they are young men just like those in ancient Greece and pre-Columbus America etc. No more capable and no less. Teach them the skills that tv does not.

 

Coach them through 'boy led' techniques. They will realise the benefit when comparing to other Troops just like Eammon wrote. They will not understand until then. Keep the faith.

 

Make them work hard. They will drag the chain and might gripe. But they will be proud later and that is important. For life.

 

Give praise when it is earned - not before. Always encourage and cheer. Explain that their school peers will never understand the success they have at Scouts. How can they - they don't 'do' anything without mom and dad helping?

 

Do not soften the programme - but know that some will not like that and will leave. You cannot save them all - but you can help some. Not a popular idea. Check out Positive Psycholgy - well regarded and scientifically tested ideas about feeling better and being happier. Note specially 'peak experience' and 'flow'. They are the academic terms that describe a good Scout program. PM me if you want specifics.

 

If you don't want the philosophy then do what your training suggested, note the Green Bar ideas and accept that Bob White is on the right track even if he pokes us in the eye a bit too much.

 

We are competing though so I recommend that every meeting and camp has one thing in it that is ,e,orable - in a good way.

 

Heck - that was pontificating. You touched a nerve True Believer.

 

I am very serious about the Pos Psych. I am not a psych but manage a school camp programme full time. Pos Psych is the basis for what we do. You do it too I'm thinking. Not new really but it is funny how these old ideas come full circle and turn up as 'cutting edge'. I can refer you to a bunch of websites and books. Happy to PM.

[SMT224]

When I became Scoutmaster in 2001, the Troop had 11 boys and was completely adult run. And it had been pretty much that way since the 40's and 50's. Most of the committee had been Scouts in the Troop, and they were used to doing things a certain way - their way. My initial efforts to "make" the Troop a boy-led Troop failed disastrously, because the culture of "how things are done" was so deeply ingrained. From that frustration I learned not only patience, but that change comes slowly.

 

Once I came to understand that I could not force the "boy-led" concept down the throats of the Scouters and Scouts who very used to a certain way of doing things, I started making changes slowly, focusing on Troop-level training and setting up conditions that were conducive to the boys doing more for themselves and participating in Troop-wide decision making. I started doing JLT, instituted a PLC where none had been before, and did programing planing involving Scouts. The Committee was really upset over this and made it very clear I was on my own because I was not doing things "the way they had always been done..." As it turned out, this was a blessing in disguise, as I was able to do things with out their intervention.

 

It took the generation who had been raise in the old way of doing things to move out of the Troop and PLs who had been through the "new" JLT and then NYLT to become troop leaders before "Scout-Led" really became part of the Troop culture. And as others have said, it also depends on the SPL as to how much they take charge of -- some make of good go of it, others need a of intervention to get things done. I do my best to stand aside and let him lead - hard sometimes, but usually worth it.

 

But you can't always just stand aside and let them do what ever they want -- the controlled failure option is ok on a limited basis (especially in the Venture Patrol), but not once it goes Troop-wide. Another hard lesson I learned is that sometimes the Scoutmaster does need to step in when leadership fails or pushes way beyond the Scout Law. I guess the wisdom I'm striving for is knowing when and how to make an exception to the rule.

 

My advice: patience and training. Repeat. Remember, this too shall pass.

 

 

[Gunny2862]

Moving from an "Adult club that takes boys camping" to "Boy Led" has been and is a struggle and as we continue to rotate leaders probably will be. But we also may double in size this year if all of the recruiting commitments we have received result in actual joins.

 

But the results as the boys buy in have been worth it so far, of course, it sometimes has taken measures such as - "Well you didn't plan a trip, so the calendar dates were given back to the parents and the reservations canceled; next time plan activities and a menu and get a list of attendees, etc.,..."

 

The biggest issue for me has been that they didn't know what was possible or trust that it would REALLY be turned over to them to make real decisions. Because the language had been spoken before but the follow thru of letting them fail never happened.

 

Be a true believer, buy into the idea that "mistakes are proof that they are trying" and realize that the failures are not problems, they are the teachable moments where the real growth is possible.

[True Believer]

Thank you all for the advice and, especially, for the encouragement. I will be buying those Green Bar Bill Scoutmaster Manuals, and redouble my efforts. I am going to have the Patrol Leaders hand out the badges of rank and merit badges to their members, at our Court of Honor on Monday. A little patrol pride building.