Expenses, petty cash, etc.

[acco40]

When I was a den leader and my wife Pack committee chair, we found it best if dens took care of their own expenses for materials and supplies (via den dues or what ever) and did not involve the Pack leadership.

 

Pack event (Blue & Gold, Pinewood Derby, etc.) were taken care of by the Pack committee.

 

My only beef was the Pack seemed more intent on "hiring" entertainment as opposed to putting in the time and effort to have the boys involved in the pack meetings. In my community we tended to be money rich and time poor so to speak.

[SeattlePioneer]

Personally I hated collecting dues with a passion. Good in theory but a heck of a nuisance in practice.

 

Sounds like lazy pack management to me. It's a wonder the den leaders didn't go on strike.

[Eamonn]

So far I have yet to find a system that's perfect.

 

83Eagle posts: "I just don't like getting a check made payable to me by the unit even though I have the docs to support it."

I fail to see any reason for this or any real way to avoid it.

I'm very much with Fred8033, when he posts: "My main concern is getting people reimbursed and reimbursed quickly."

I would add that we need to also sometimes put our own financial feelings to one side?? That is to say, where as I might be OK or comfortable waiting for what I'd see as not being very much money. There are others who just can't afford to wait and that "Small amount" Isn't small to them.

 

Back when I was a CM Her Who Must Be Obeyed served as the Pack Treasurer.

The Pack checking account was set up so that all checks needed two signatures, with four people being allowed to sign checks.

I was one of the four, but whenever possible I tried not to sign checks and of course never signed checks that were made payable to myself.

The Pack Committee met a week after the Leaders Meeting.

At the Leaders meeting we tried to get the Den Leaders to ask for whatever money they needed for the coming month. This was then presented by the CM to the Pack Committee and the checks were then cut. If the Den didn't spend it all they turned in any leftovers at the next meeting.

Of course this didn't stop Den Leaders from coming to the house or coming to the Treasurer at Pack Meetings.

We were never very fussy about itemized receipts, most times the entry in the check book and the Pack Account Book just read Check # 123 for X amount payable to whoever for Den Supplies.

Our CO, our local R/C Church was OK with this. In fact even though we made it clear that we were open to having them go over the books at anytime they never wanted to and the COR was at most of the Pack Committee Meetings anyway.

Nearly all of the checks for large amounts were made payable to the Council for things like resident camps,Re-chartering and membership fees along with topping up the money in the Pack Account in the Council Service Center.

People in charge of big events like the Pack B&G Banquet, Pine Wood Derby were given hand money up front.

Ea.

 

 

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Every unit handles this differently.

 

Personally, I like having a unit account at the local council Scout Shop for awards. However, our Pack does not concur. So, leaders must pay out of their own pockets for awards (which can get VERY pricey) and then get reimbursed by the Pack Treasurer.

 

[SeattlePioneer]

As discussed on other threads, a credit balance at the council office can sometimes be used by council personnel without the permission of pack officers.

 

Its possible den leaders or others might charge stuff to the pack without permission.

 

It is also very true that buying awards often gets pricey.

 

I think the best method of controlling expenditures is for the treasurer to pay with a check when presented with receipts. But it is also very true this can be burdensome for volunteers.

 

As I noted earlier, I've made it a practice to pay for receipts in cash at pack and den meetings, but that's not really the role of the Cubmaster either.

 

I haven't seen a perfect system described yet...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[83Eagle]

All I want is a system that is transparent and easy to use. Something that lets us run the program all the leaders decide to do. Right now we plan and budget for events, leaders spend a lot of their own money on stuff, then every 6 months or so our committee chair wanders into a meeting and wonders how we could have possibly spent $50 on supplies for some event and why is so-and-so getting "a big check from the pack."

 

If we had a system where leaders never had to spend their own money up front, at least when we got the occasional proctology exam we would eliminate the second part.

 

I'm wondering if we can get a prepaid, or purchase-limited, debit card of some sorts. Plastic is the best solution here that I can see but there is no way a regular card would fly.

[OwntheNight]

Unfortunately, It's a necessary evil to have to reimburse the leaders. As much as we'd like to be able to get the supplies they need beforehand to prevent the reimbursement process. It's just not feasible.

 

In our pack, we have the reimbursement form on our Scouttrack site. We also have a document that explains how to fill out the form. On that form, it specifically states receipts can't be over 30 days old. Our former treasurer was an accountant by trade and created all the reports and set up the Quicken account to keep track of everything. She spent a few weeks with the new treasurer explaining the system and how to keep everything updated.

 

We do have 5 people authorized to sign checks, and there has to be a double signature on every check. It usually works out 1 of 4 ways:

1: If we can get an invoice for services or goods, treasurer pays direct with a check

2: If deposits or other items are needed for event, etc. CC uses personal credit card and is reimbursed

3: Advancement coordinator goes to Scout store and picks up all advancements

4: Leader purchases items for den/pack meeting and needs to fill out reimbursement form.

 

I tell all the den leader's to check with me on stuff they might need or use. We have a storage shed with an accumulation of crafts and other things, which former leaders have accumulated over time. The only issue with that, is that only 3 people have the key and code to get into the unit. One of us has to go over and get it for them. But, we also don't want to buy a bunch of stuff and have to keep it stored all the time. At one point, we had stuff spread out around 4 or 5 peoples garages.

 

It's not a perfect system, but it is the one we have and it works for us. It is relatively painless.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Own The Night,

 

 

I think you have an excellent system.

 

One double check I think is important would be the practice of sending the checking account bstatement to the Committee Chair or someone OTHER THAN the Treasurer.

 

That ability to look over the unfiltered record of checks written and expenditures made is an excellent double check on what is happening. The Committee Chair can then forward the statement to the Treasurer after looking it over.

 

That's a lot better check than the nuisance of having two signatures on checks, in my opinion.

 

Also --- what controls do you have over payments to the pack in cash? I described our use of a receipt book that has three copies, one of which goes to the person making the payment, the second to the Treasurer and the third staying in the receipt book. It's real easy to get sloppy about habndling cash.

[83Eagle]

Anybody use store cards like a walmart gift card? You can buy anything you would need at walmart, so I've heard. Give someone who is in charge of an event a $100 walmart card, ask for receipts, turn in the card afterward.

[Oak Tree]

The normal thing in our unit is for leaders to buy the stuff and turn in the receipts. It generally hasn't been a problem. If you pay with a credit card, you don't have to pay right away anyway. The treasurer can generally write you a check on the spot. Then I can use my cell phone app, take a picture of the check and bam!, it's in my account.

 

If someone doesn't want to pay ahead of time, which is generally only for large purchases, we can get a check from the unit treasurer. We've had unit leaders pay expenses up to $5000 on their credit card and just get reimbursed, but not everyone has (or wants to use) the necessary credit limit for that.

 

I'll say that we've never required two-signature checks, and that just seems like a big hassle for no real benefit. We get the monthly bank report and treasurer's report, so we know where the money went. The one-signature system does make it faster for the treasurer to get reimbursement checks to the unit leaders.

[OwntheNight]

Seattle,

 

We do have a receipt book that has 2 copies in it. So the person gets a copy and we have one on file. When the cash comes in, we actually have 2 people count it, the Treasurer and usually a committee member or myself or the CC to verify the numbers. We also encourage checks or using the credit/debit card reader we have tied to the account.

 

Our COR does stipulate having two signatures on the checks, so we can't get around that.

 

The treasurer does have to report at the monthly committee meeting all the activities, which usually means pulling the report from Quicken for the past month and printing out for the committee.

 

I do like the idea of having the statement sent to somebody other than the treasurer. I might talk to the bank about using their online tools, to be able to view the accounts, even though that might not give you the full picture of the unit economics.

 

83, While Wal Mart does carry alot, they don't have some of the kitschy stuff. One of our parents is a regional manager for one of the craft/ hobby stores around here. He'll either get us coupons or will use his employee discount, depending on the better deal. We also like to shop local, to support the community as much as possible.

 

(This message has been edited by OwnTheNight)(This message has been edited by OwnTheNight)

[83Eagle]

Does anybody use a CREDIT card? An advancement coordinator from a different unit was in front of me at the scout shop today and had a pack credit card. The store manager also recommended it.

 

The advantage I see is that it's not tied into the unit checking account like a debit card, or even a check would be. And if it was misused the money would not come right out of the bank, and it would be a fraud issue potentially to turn over to the credit card company,

 

Thoughts?

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Own--

 

>

 

 

Our treasurer rarely shows up for activities.

 

Having a three part receipt books allows each party to have a record of the transaction:

 

1: The person paying the money gets their receipt

 

2: The person who "owns" the receipt book (Cubmaster or whoever) keeps the copy in the receipt book

 

3: The Treasurer gets a copy of payments made, and can keep track of all the receipts issued. So even when they aren't there, they can verify that they have received a copy of each receipt issued by keeping a file of those receipts.

 

I used to collect payments for bills for the utility I worked for, and that was the system they used. When I came in at the end of the day I paid any money received to the cashier, who collected one of the three receipts along with the money and stamped my copy of the receipt as being paid.

 

 

Cash tends to be slippery. Even with good intentions it's easy to lose track of who has paid for what.

 

Anyway, it's a system I like and tend to promote.