Jamboree 2013 - Am I The Only One?

[Wilton125]

BSA "Predatory Pricing" example: Uniform "Switchback Pants": $44.99

http://www.scoutstuff.org/bsa/uniforms-insignia/mens/pants/centennial-switchbacks-uniform-pants.html

 

"Thrifty" example: non-BSA "convertible pants": $24.99

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___75430

 

BSA "Predatory Pricing" example: Supplex Uniform Shirt: $44.99

http://www.scoutstuff.org/centennial-boy-scout-male-leader-long-sleeve-supplex-nylon-uniform-shirt.html

 

"Thrifty" example: non-BSA "Men's Travel Shirt": $24.99

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___73470

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KC9DDI]

Well, short of just copying and pasting my previous post...

 

Yes, the BSA sells some items that are more expensive than similar items found at other retailers. REI sells some items at a higher price than at Campmor. Target sells some items at a higher price than at Walmart. I propose a boycott of the BSA, REI and Target due to their "predatory pricing."

 

You, as the consumer, can chose where you spend your money. You are not required to purchase anything from the BSA, other than the $15 annual membership fee. If you wish to purchase official BSA merchandise directly from the BSA, you are free to do so at the prices they set. Or you can purchase uniform items second hand, often at a much reduced cost. Or you can forgo buying BSA merchandise at all. It's up to you.

 

I don't understand why you feel entitled to receive a product at a lower cost than what the vendor is charging. These are Scout uniforms for pete's sake, not critical food or medicine that you can't live without. If you feel it's worth the money, fantastic. If not, fantastic. You're not being forced to purchase these items.

[Wilton125]

I hold BSA National to the same high standard that we expect Scouts and Adults to demonstrate.

 

I am disappointed with BSA National for their pursuit in maximizing economic profits at the expense of its members.

 

It just seems wrong.

 

 

[emb021]

BSA Uniforms are NOT 'off the rack' clothing items.

 

They are uniquely designed for the BSA, with BSA insignia on them. Hence, they are a little more costly then off the rack items.

 

This is basic economics.

[T2Eagle]

I have no idea what the mark-up is on BSA uniform items, but it's certainly apples and oranges to compare that to CampMor. Campmor is a good retailer and I always check their site when I'm in the market for outdoors stuff, but they are a discounter that sells odd lots, clearance items, discontinued products etc. Those pants and shirts may be there today, but that doesn't mean they'll be available tomorrow, they also might not have now or ever the most common sizes, colors, etc.

 

If you want a better comparison you have to compare paying full retail price for comparable items at Cabelas, Bass Pro etc. to see whether the pricing is predatory.

 

 

[Engineer61]

Huh?

 

Uniforms are OPTIONAL? Really?

[KC9DDI]

E61 - correct. Neither owning nor wearing a uniform is a condition of membership in the BSA. It is also not even a component of any advancement requirement that I am aware of.

[le Voyageur]

My question for National is, why do you need another high adventure base? More so when there is already a Council offering the same program, and has been offering those programs over a decade, or more.

What purpose does it serve to cut the economic throat of this Council? Is it only about profit, which from my perspective seems to be the case!

 

 

[Eagle92]

LV,

 

#1 reason why BSA was looking for a new jambo site was DOD was sued, and essentially lost teh suit if memory serves. Hence AP Hill is no longer available. So BSA needed to find a new Jambo home. And instead of just using the area 1 time every 4 years, they decided to turn it into a HA base.

 

Sad thing is the military looses too. Good friend of mine attended '89 Jambo, but with the Army. His unit used the set up as a training exercise for refugee operations.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

[le Voyageur]

I understand the need for a new Jambo site, which was the only purpose that AP Hill served. AP had never been used as a high adventure base, nor was AP ever in direct competition with other council's high adventure programs in the area. It seems National has decided that Summit will not only replace AP Hill, but offer the exact same high adventure programs of BRMC,impacting that Council's many high adventure programs. Programs which they've spent years developing at considerable cost.....I just don't see National as a good neighbor...which is the reason for my question(This message has been edited by le Voyageur)

[desertrat77]

There is nothing special about today's BSA uniform.....

 

Eagle 92: you are right, jambo type events are good training for the military. It takes talent to do something like that right. As far as terminology, got a chuckle from the "refugee ops"...when I was on camp staff as a scout, and filling out the tax paperwork before the start of the summer, our camp director said we staffers were in the same tax category as "migrant workers." Helped us keep things in perspective!

[acco40]

The BSA insisting that it is a private organization helped remove it from Fort AP Hill - and rightly so. The USG spent a lot of money on the National Jamboree which I think is wrong - for a private organization.

 

Yes, the BSA wants a set place for Jambo. From my experience with Jambo, severely lowering or even banning "visitors" would be a great improvement!

[Scoutfish]

I have nothing to say about jambo, but as far as BSA selling uniforms at a higher cost than other places...well...it's not unique to BSA

 

Back when I used to work with water rescue, I had a wetsuit,a dive skin, neoprene boots and gloves.

Okay, everybody knows what a wetsuit is. most rec boatinmg supply stores, surf shops and dive shops wanted a a big chunk of change for their suits. The dive shops usually running at least double the price of a surf shop for the exact same suit( same color, brand, model number).

 

The dive skin ( if you don't know) is basically a zip fron spandex catsuit type outfit with thumb loops and foot stirups to keep the suit in place while you wear it under a wetsuit. It makes donning a wetsuit easier, and is a wear alone outfit in warm weather. By itself, it prevents chaffing and as thin as the lycra material is, it will deflect the sting of a Man-o-war tentacle. Plus will prevent sunburn.

 

Dive shop wanted about $150 for that.

 

I didn't have internet back then, but bought a basic black suit at a dance shop for $40.00. Same features, but didn't have a dive brand logo on it.

 

Everybody wanted at least $160.00 for the suit I planned to buy. I went to wal-mart and bought a Henderson for less than $70.00 (this was back in 1993) The dive shop wanted $240.99 . I bought a

 

When my wife started her home (dvd) execise routine a while back, she went to a dance shop to buy one of those one piece full body suits and the matching leotard. It would have cost her almost $120 for the two piece spandex outfit. She got them at a discount online dance store for about $65.. for both including shipping.

 

I could go to Wal-Mart to buy fishing tackle cheaper than the local tackle shop.

 

But here's the thing: The local tackle shop knows me by name. They also know what kind of fishing I do. They do not sell me freshwater gear or deep seas gear. They know that I fish from shore or from a boat in the Intracoastal Waterway and bays, etc.

 

They wil spend 25 minutes with my ten year old son showing him how to tie a knot of throw a cast net.

 

The dive shop could steer me to a better fitting or better grade of quality wetsuit. They may know about a company fixing to go under and not being able to honor a defect warranty. They will have a ton more knowledge than Wal-Mart will with anything do do with the type of product tey sell.

 

But all I needed was a basic suit for early season( late spring) and late season(early fall) temps (During the summer, we only used dive skins)

 

The dance store may tell my wife ahead of time about what may be coming up event wise. Or will special order something for her that Wal-Mart of the online store may not even know about, much less be able to customize...assuming they even offer that service. Maybe it's a compression garmet. Maybe it's a slimming garment. Maybe it ofers support, slims her, warms her muscles and has a fresh smoothie waiting in the fridge after she finishes working out.

 

But if she is fine with a basic garment from online..that's great!

 

 

The scout shop is a specialty shop. Yeah, I know it doesn't seem that way because we have spent so much time going there for this or that..but it is a specialty shop. WE are part of a special club.

 

BSA is not an average discount camp store. They also are a resouce store ( all books , manuals, leaders guides, and such) You will not find that at a camp store. They also offer advancement badges, ranks, awards, etc... Still won't get that at Campmor.

 

Go to any mall, Almost every store in that mall will charge a substantially higher price than a discount store.

 

Maybe the speciallty store are about right in price while the discount stores are ...DISCOUNTED?

 

 

Now, I am not saying I like or enjoy the scout shop's prices, no more than I enjoy paying more for a higher quality, specialized mask at the dive shop.

 

But the thing is, you also pay for service and extra attention you cannot get at the discount stores.

 

I am not even sure the people at Wal-Mart know what a cast net is used for...much less show my son how to throw one.

 

The attendant at Wal-Mart didn't know the difference between a spring suit, farmer John suit, or full wet suit.

 

The woman at the dance shop could order something speciffically for my wife in hr choice of fabric, cut, style, and color. With or without built in underwire bra. Zipper in front, back, or without a zipper at all.

 

If you want a good cigar, you can go to a discount cigarette shop. You want a great cigar...you go to a cigar speciallist ( tobacconist? )

 

You can buy a bottle or box of wine at any grocery store, but you want the good stuff...you go to a wine shop.

 

You can buy beer at Wal-Mart, but if you want a special brew, you go to a brewist.

 

I could go on.

 

 

Think of it this way..you can choose where you buy, but you get what you pay for in product, service, quality, convienence or time .

 

Pick two or theee, but not all.

[skeptic]

Acco

 

You do realize that BSA paid millions of dollars to the government each time they had the jamboree. They also built things that were kept by the government. But the biggest thing was that the Army got valuable training in dealing with large crowds and events, as well as many emergencies; training that would have been much harder to do without the scouts being present.

 

The use of the site was never free.

[desertrat77]

Scoutfish, you never know....

 

When I was stationed in NJ, at Walmart a gent who worked in sporting goods helped me get set up for fishing from the shore, A - Z...took 30 mins of his time, a great experience. Granted, a rare experience at Walmart but a pleasant one nonetheless.

 

I understand what you are saying about specialized gear. However, the BSA uniform hasn't been specialized since the late '60s. Previously it was designed for rugged outdoor wear. From the '70s on, it's just some fancy duds to wear to a meeting or training. I don't consider meetings or training specialized. If the BSA is looking to have something unique to wear around town, to show identity, we could go a whole lot cheaper and better looking.

 

If the BSA uniform was specialized for the outdoors, I'd have no problem spending the extra bucks. But it's not, so I'll continue to wear my Oscar De L shirt from the '80s till it wears out, or I do.....