qwazse Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I honestly have not heard of anyone turning down any young adult solely on the basis of his/her age. No offense to the Mrs., Eng 61, but you all sound a little paranoid. Trust, but verify. In that order. That said, if the SM feels adult:youth ratio is a little top-heavy, he may not feel like taking on another ASM, so signing up newcomers to town doesn't always need to be a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engineer61 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Paranoid? Dang right...glad to be as well, as long as my wife has her legal neck stuck out by being a Scout volunteer, I want max paranoia. "Trust, but verify. In that order. " No way... "Verify ... decide if you trust the verification ... consider closely monitored events." Eagle does not equal safe. Eagle92, I'm curious. Sounds like your wife sent you a message ... did you hear it? Say your son does not want to do Scouting...will you accept his choice? Will you continue to volunteer?(This message has been edited by Engineer61) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardad Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Our pack does not allow non-parent leaders. for right or wrong that is the policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherhoodWWW Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Beardad what does your pack's policy have to do with the OP? I think units should run away from anyone regardless of age with real experience in Scouting. What better way is there to make Scouting an award factory lead by adults with no experience or knowledge in Scoutcraft! (tongue in cheek) When I was in college I was that youth! I wished to stay active in OA and to do that I needed to be registered. The only option at that time for an 18 year old was to serve as an ASM so I found a unit in my college town that wanted my help. I was not an Eagle Scout but I possessed more scouting skills than most of those that I knew. Advancement was simply not my objective while a youth. Adventure was! I think units that pass on volunteers due to age alone sadly are cheapening their youths experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Eng, Yep the wife sends out messages from time to time and I get it. She's wonderful, she understands my addiction to Scouting, and as long as it is balanced, she if fine with it. It's when scouting begins to take over, as can happen, or things like holding my son back from a scout activity so that I do not appear to be letting him do everything and be the "leaders kid who doesn't let others do stuff" goes overboard. But I actually feel kinda bad for her at times. She lvoes the outdoors and has served as a leader with a crew while we were dating and first married, as well as a MC with a troop I was with. She's been asked to be a leader with a crew locally, and wanted to jump at it. But with 3 kids and her mom, it's rough. Hopefully as the kids grow up a little more. As for what happens if he decides scouting isn't for him? I'd probably do the right thing like you are with your step son: letting him do what he wants. Just as I imagine it is hard for you to understand Scouting, I know it's hard for me to understand sport at times. At the moment I've given him choices, and he has chosen scouts over karate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambridgeskip Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 In all this talk of checking references does the USA have the equivalent of a CRB check? Over here we not only can we are also obliged to do a CRB (Criminal Records Bureau) check not just at scouts but on any adult that works with "vulnerable" people (essentially children, the elderly, those with learning difficulties or the disabled) They have to prove their identity and they are then checked to see if they have a criminal record. Of course this will only catch out anyone that has been prosecuted but it obviously acts as a deterant to any undesirables from even applying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartHumphries Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Yes, the USA does that. I'd think a young college age kid that wanted to volunteer with Scouts would be doing it because he liked Scouting. Well, that or trying to pad his resume with a lot of volunteer hours, but either way I wouldn't say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 "Trust, but verify. In that order. " No way... "Verify ... decide if you trust the verification ... consider closely monitored events." Yeah sure, like, if the guy's been a collegiate football coach for years, you can trust that verification more than if some young buck's scoutmaster tells you he is worth the bling over his left pocket? We see how well that worked for the kids in Happy Valley. Don't get me wrong, we need to be on our guard, but like Beav explained, the strangers are no more of a threat than the familiars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey H Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Don't reject the youthful ASM candidates. Too many troop programs have too many old guys like me that are in it because our sons are in it. A fresh perspective from a youthful candidate and the extra physical energy he brings could be just what our Troops need. Heck, some units can't seem to seperate themselves from "drive up to the camp" car-camping because adult leaders are too old, too out-of-shape, and therefore unwilling to take the boys on more adventurous outings that require more physical extertion. There is no reason for these youthful candidates to have to wait until they are married, have kids and wait another 11 years for their son to be old enough to get back into Scouting. Check his references and if all clear, put him to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engineer61 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I guess the events in State College, PA will make everyone reassess again. 20-something year old grad student ... saw what he saw and didn't call the Police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 20-something year old grad student ... saw what he saw and didn't call the Police. But did testify before da grand jury. Not sure what your point is, Engineer61. The competent, older, family men who were regulars in the program chose to do nothing and cover it up. At least da grad student reported it to folks he thought would respond. Though, I will admit, had I been that grad student the fellow would not have left the building under his own power. On a stretcher or in handcuffs, or both. No question. No doubt. No regrets. Yeh rescue the kid first. But I understand where most folks in such circumstances like that when they're completely unprepared for what they saw just get caught up for a bit simply not believin' they actually saw what they thought. I mean, who can imagine such a thing? Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I don't see it that way, Eng. The 20 year old didn't do the wrong thing. All the pics I'm seeing of the perp and of the head coach, the athletic supervisors/directors, the university president, etc. (all the guys who are being fired/arrested) show older men. Looks to me like they're the really scary group here. In fact I think we might say that the situation would have been better handled by a bunch of 20 year olds, than by all these old dudes who felt a need to cover up such a heinous crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle707 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I'm not sure how the 20 year old becomes the villain here or even how it pertains to this thread: Are you saying that young college students will simply accept/overlook incidents of physical, verbal, or sexual abuse? If that is the case, that is patently untrue. Blaming the graduate student for the actions of people three times his age is unfair. He followed his procedures and did exactly what he had been taught to do: Report to those above him and make sure it was documented. Given who he was reporting about, and the potential repercussions, he should be commended for coming forward at all and not fearing the reprisals of those above him. Yes, can be repercussions if something threatens to derail a Division I athletic department. Let's apply the same thing to the topic at hand: If the idea of young Scouter following his instructions to the letter, without fear of alienating those older Scouters who "know all," is unappealing then I'm not sure what criteria are being used to judge "young" Scouters. Scouts are "trustworthy" and "brave" and I don't see why these become negative qualities once Scouts reach "Scouter age."(This message has been edited by Eagle707) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardad Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 well it's relevant to the OP because unless this eagle college student had a son in the pack he wouldn't be allowed to be a leader. the troop either. in fact our troop won't even let the kids who eagled and aged out in our troop come back as leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Lets attempt to get this right The Graduate Assistant was 28 years old at the time he saw the incident. Not 20, not 21, not a fresh faced college graduate who was new to the ways of the world. He testified he at first heard rhythmic slapping he associated with sexual activity, this was not his first time at the rodeo, He was 28, and Mike McQueary saw what was going on and instead of breaking it up and rescuing the child, chose to leave the scene of the rape, call his daddy and then tell Coach Paterno the next day what he saw. That he never called 911 when he realized what was going on is astounding to me. He did what he was supposed to do? He isnt expected to do more? This is acceptable behavior? What, run away and call daddy? He couldnt call 911, yell rape or physically stop the rape? He did ok? Eveyone and I mean everyone's behavior in this situation was abysmal, but the "kid" eyewitness was no kid and its a dis service to 20-21 year old everywhere to lump McQueary's actions in with them This is about college students who want to be Assistant Scoutmasters, not a 28 year old man who wouldn't know a moral compass if a scout handed it to him. As if being older is a hedge against abuse, Jerry Sandusky proved that doesnt work (This message has been edited by oldgreyeagle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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