Down the road?

[Eamonn]

For the up-tee-nth time I've been up-dating my retirement plans.

The hard truth is that as long as I'm able to do what I'm doing and enjoy what I'm doing, I really don't want to retire.

But deep down I do know that the day is going to come and I don't want not to be ready or have not made plans.

Kinda strange that my new plan looks very much like the first plan.

As so far as Scouting goes?

I had thought that I might be around to see my grandson join and that I'd maybe be there to lend a hand and kinda show him the ropes.

However being that he isn't even a twinkle as yet and anything that might happen is not going to happen for about ten years or more, I've come to the conclusion that there's a good chance that this is never going to really happen.

This got me thinking about what changes will happen too Scouts and Scouting over the next ten years?

No I'm not talking about the gay thing! I think we have beaten that horse to death in the other on-going thread!!

Some change has already happened.

Areas have been changed, Regional Offices have closed and there have been changes in the way the National Office is set up.

For the most part for the end user (The Kid). This hasn't made any difference what so ever.

The uniform has been altered but if you ask me we seem to have so many uniforms around at the moment we are anything but uniform.

My thinking is that over the next few years while there will still be a uniform it is going to become something that is worn by very few and only used for very formal events.

Much the same way as kids wear shoes that need to be polished, most have a pair somewhere? They just never wear them. Opting to wear trainers, or tennis type shoes.

Training has changed a lot over the past few years.

Courses have come, gone, been re-named and altered.

The big change that I'm not sure that I like is how it is delivered.

While I see the good points that come from on line and individual at home training. I think not having the interaction with others and getting introduced and forming relationships with other local Scouter's is a bad thing.

Still Internet and on line training is not going away.

In fact I think it will not only become the norm but expand.

My thinking is that the days when people like myself sign on and are around for a very long time are going. Volunteers will still sign on, but they will volunteer to do a specific task, that takes a specified amount of time. Once that task is done and completed that person will move on. Training for the tasks will be delivered on line.

The impact of what is happening with finances today is going to be around for a very long time.

Money is very hard to get.

Councils are hurting, donations are way down, money from investments are not bringing in as much as they used too and costs are rising.

Like it or not, there will be change.

Some Councils, especially the smaller ones in the NE-Region are not going to survive.

Districts are going to cover larger areas, with less DE's covering them.

Many camps owned by small Councils will be sold off replaced by Regional Activity Centers and Regional High Adventure bases.

Regions will be able to afford this when they receive the windfall from not only the sale of the smaller camps, but also the money that failed Councils have in endowment funds.

 

My hope is that sometime in the not so distant future someone takes a long hard look at the age groups. I don't think what we have in place right now really works for the youth we are trying to serve.

I of course hope that any changes are made with the interest of the youth in mind, not just some "Clever Plan" that makes membership look better on paper.

While I'm all for co-ed scouting. I'm not sure how long it will take? Maybe more than ten years!

While I know that myself and many old timers like myself aren't going to like it, my guess is that Scouting is not going to be as outdoor based as it used to be.

Kids who want to be Scouts but have no interest in camping and traditional out door skills will be catered for.

This will fall in line with the new volunteers who have no interest in learning skills that they don't have, but are happy to volunteer to cover a subject that they are good at with a group of Scouts.

Scouts will have to join forces with other and more outside groups to participate in the things that they want to do.

Advancement as we know it will be replaced with something that is more tailor made to fit and cover the individual interest of each Scout.

Of course I could be 100% wrong about some or all of this.

While maybe some changes will be good? Some are not going to be that good and could end up hurting the organization many of us love and have worked for, putting in countless hours.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Comments and other ideas are welcome.

But please, lets not go down the gay path again!!

Ea.

 

 

[packsaddle]

I agree. Just consider THIS set of forums. If we were really face-to-face around a real campfire, I doubt that there would be any need for 'moderators' whatsoever. Same for the troops and packs. There is real value in face-to-face interactions...we can better appreciate the humanity of the others, more-so than a bunch of photons streaming from a glorified videogame.

 

So this is one reason, I think, that your observation of little difference to the boys is valid. The boys DO work in a realm of face-to-face interaction if the unit is active. It is not only a source of fun and learning but also socialization so they can learn how to get along with others, and NOT IN CAPITALIZATIONS on some digital medium thing.

To me this also is the essence of the value of local option for programs. The parents and unit leaders are the ones who best know the boys and best able to determine needs.

 

I guess I'm ahead of you re:grandsons. I know for sure what I'm headed for and I'm looking forward to it...just a few more years to Tiger. Sure hope they don't move away, I'll just have to pack up and move too....

[skeptic]

"The boys DO work in a realm of face-to-face interaction if the unit is active. It is not only a source of fun and learning but also socialization so they can learn how to get along with others"

 

Pack;

 

Above is so true. Was on a day hike Saturday with 5 scouts, and while we were at the rock scrambling location (no ropes), you could see the interaction going on. Have one photo taken by someone else that shows them in a shady spot in animated discussion, completely engrossed and having a good time. I suspect they were talking about video games or such, but they were together and interacting.

 

We let them wade in the river on the way back, even though it is almost November; because they wanted to. It is too low to be a real safety issue, but they had fun. They also spent almost 20 minutes skimming, or trying to skim rocks. Let them be kids, and stay out of their way if not unsafe. Do that and we go on forever, no matter what format the adults use to screw things up.

 

Just hope I can stay mobile enough to still hike with them. Will be 68 next year in March, and already have back issues that effect backpacking; but day hikes seem to be fine, as long as I can take my time.(This message has been edited by skeptic)

[SeattlePioneer]

Families will download the Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs and complete advancement requirements at on line camps using avatars to demonstrate skills.

 

The only real need to get together will be when twelve years olds have their Eagle Court of Honor.

[Stosh]

Having been out of scouts for 6 months now, as I reflect back, maybe it isn't such a bad thing. Having been one of the old-time dinosaurs for the past 20 years, it is becoming more and more difficult to do what scouts used to do on a regular basis. Never having grown up, it's nice to be able to get out and do the things I haven't done for many years in the out-of-doors.

 

Once one gets involved in adult groups of outdoors people, one begins to realize all the hassles one has with parental and programmatic restrictions. One has all these hoops to jump through, be certified, fill out the appropriate forms, etc. etc. that by the time everyone gets in the car, the scouters are totally exhausted.

 

Just to see what would happen, I called a flash mob at a canoe landing 5 hours away and decided it might be a quiet weekend for my girl friend and myself. Instead, the parking lot was filled with all kinds of people that "just showed up" for the "event". Kayaked/canoed all day long, went back to restaurant, had a campfire and totally enjoyed the day with everyone. No tour permits, no certifications, no medical forms, no permission slips, no fundraisers, no YPT, and everyone had a blast. When having fun becomes too much work, it isn't fun anymore.

 

50 years ago I wonder if all the hassle was the same to get us kids out into the woods. I don't remember it being all that difficult. While I wouldn't/didn't mind a certain amount of prep planning because kids were involved, I think it's way over done.

 

Just my humble opinion.

 

Stosh

[SeattlePioneer]

The campfire of the future is here today!

 

 

[WAKWIB]

Well, for me, many moons will come and go before I see grandchildren.

For my two-cents:

 

In some ways the Scouting program seems a bit better than in the days of my youth in terms of opportunities and equipment. Kids do "high-adventure" stuff almost as a routine. Back in the day, Philmont was the place to go for that, and it seemed like a major undertaking to get there. That's just one example.

 

Kids like the outdoors but seem to need a key activity to get them there. My Boy Scout campouts were little more than pitching a tent and cooking over a fire, exploring the same woods every month, maybe a game of capture-the-flag. Unless it was a Camporee, or summer camp, we had (by today's standards) a fairly boring routine. Now, there are a lot of opportunities for fishing, shooting, caving, canoeing, cope-course,cycling trips,etc...all of which the troop I serve has done in the last couple of years.

 

With the current economic climate troops may have to revert a bit to Scouting that those of us in the 50+ age group did. The same econ. realities will definitely alter the professional structure of the organization. And, I expect, in a scramble to keep membership numbers up, many things could change in how National sells the program....and a few things will be good, but I think most will just look like an attempt to please the masses (however you want to spin that!)

 

Scouting at a local level does seem to replicate itself from past experiences and tradition. Those who were in the program as boys, want the same experience or better for their kids. That is a plus. "Tradition" and continuity is a huge factor in our council, anyway. I know dozens of men in leadership at district and council volunteer positions who drive our program from a platform of "I had a great time as a Scout, and I want to keep it going strong!" We still have a lot of volunteers in it for the long-haul, but as Eamonn noted, that may change with the next generation which in my opinion would be the biggest change-agent and we could likely end up with the type of program SeattlePioneer describes!!

[BadenP]

Eamonn

 

I agree and relate with so much in your post, nostalgia is great and unfortunately every organization changes with the times. My biggest concerns are just how much the outdoor emphasis has been lost in scouts, how the quality and challenge of the scouting program has become so simplified and watered down over time, and how National is rapidly and blindly leading the scouting program down a great highway to nowhere.

 

Then I look at my crew started over a decade ago with 5 adults and 8 teens wondering what this new Venturing program was all about. Then watching the membership grow to over 70 youth and 25 adult leaders, and still growing every year. Now in my fifties I see this crew will have no trouble surviving far into the future with an exciting and challenging outdoor program, and that is my legacy to scouting. As the CC/COR I can pretty much assure the continued strong support of our sponsor and our leaders and committee continuing to be a strong team until one day when it is my turn to turn over the reins to another.

[Eamonn]

Thank you WAKWIB,

Looking at what I posted, I see that I might be guilty of painting a picture full of doom and gloom.

Truth is that as long as boys are around that can never be the case.

No matter what's down the road?

I still think and like to think that there will be adults who will remain able to remember what it's like to be a boy.

Still able to enjoy the things that make boys boys.

While I'm a little uncomfortable when people talk about "Pay checks" I do believe that for a great number of us payday is when we stand back and see a kid or a group of kids having fun and hear their happy chatter and laughter.

Yes I know it's kinda corny.

But it is so very true.

Ea.

 

[83Eagle]

I know that as primarily a cub scout leader my opinion doesn't mean a lot here, but I just don't see the demphasization of outdoors in the program. Perhaps my going through the program in the 70s-80s, when I don't recall ever having to set up a tent, I am impressed at just how much activity and opportunity is out there. Certainly at the CS level we never ventured outdoors let alone went camping. Many a bookwork meeting in the Den Mothers home, and many a boring merit badge class at the high school cafeteria as a Boy Scout.

 

When I see what is on our affiliated troop's calendar and see what the boys know and do I am impressed. But then again I have not been doing this for 30 years I guess.

 

I have nothing to back this feeling up, but I also get the sense that an awareness and appreciation of the outdoors by youth today is greater than what it had been in the past.

 

Membership numbers don't lie, I guess, but I see the glass as half full, if not moreso.

[Eamonn]

"I know that as primarily a cub scout leader my opinion doesn't mean a lot here,.."

 

I really hope that I have done nothing to make you feel tis way.

There aren't that many volunteer positions that I haven't held.

Some I've liked more than others, some have been a lot more fun than others.

But please believe me when I say the people I respect the most are our Den Leaders.

Most have kids the same age as the little fellow in their Dens along with older and younger kids.

These people are on the go from the time they get up in the morning till bed time.

Yet they take the time to work with these Lads who are still learning and while they might be bright eyed and have innocent faces can be a real handful.

I have never held the belief that any volunteer outranks or is more important than any other volunteer.

 

My fear for the out door program is partly based on the fact that so many people who have the outdoor skills are like me on the way out.

We old timers have to shoulder the blame for not doing such a grand job of passing on these skills and providing the spark that would have lit the fire in the new and up and coming leaders.

In many ways when we moan and go on about the lack of Scout skills we need to point the finger at ourselves.

Ea.

[83Eagle]

My disclaimer was not directed at you Ea. "Here" means these forums in general, much like the regular scouting world where BS and CS volunteers mix and Cub Scouting is the red headed stepchild.

 

My point is that the outdoor program I see, I like, and is stronger than what I personally experienced over a quarter century ago. Whether that reflects on the inadequacies of my youth experience or an improvement in the program in general I can't say. But again for me the glass is half full.

[Oak Tree]

It can be hard to see which trends are going to result in some kind of tipping point.

 

I think that there has been an explosion of things that compete for people's attention. Scouting, appealing to a general audience as it does, can't really become too overly specialized, but it's many of the specialty activities that draw people.

 

I think Scouting has to remain focused on the outdoors - that is the signature of the program, and without that, there is no real draw. I know that the program is designed to be flexible, but I am comfortable predicting that Scouts will continue to camp.

 

Maybe girls, gays, and atheists get admitted - but each of those is on its own schedule and won't happen quickly.

 

There will be increasing use of technology, both in the program and behind the scenes. I think some councils have to merge. Roundtables can go away. Money-losing camps close.

 

Percentage of Eagles continues to increase.

 

I do think the uniform could become more of a "formal occasion" wear.

 

I could imagine splitting the program into troops and crews, where troops only go up to age 14.

 

Paperwork could get easier.

[JMHawkins]

The next 10 years? I thinkt he Scouting spirit will live on and be stronger 10 years from now. We're going to go through a period that will do that. Whether BSA is stronger or not is another question. It's going to be an important ten years for the organization. I believe that ten years from now, a lot of institutions we always took for granted will be gone, some new ones will have arisen, and the institutions that survive will have been renewed and revitalized.

 

I agree with BadenP about the outdoor program - it's really the heart and soul of Scouting and it's being watered down in general. I'm really happy with the quality of outdoor program my Troop and Pack are able to put on, but that comes from the volunteers who have old school attitudes about that. It helps that we're in a pretty good area for outdoor activities and have a Council that gets it and supports that aspect of the program. If we didn't have a bunch of crazy would-be moutain men who actually enjoyed tromping around the woods, it would be awfully easy to put on an indoor scouting program. National doesn't see to set a very high bar for outings. So it's up to us as volunteers to get it done. We have lots of SMASMs in their 30's and 40's, so maybe we can keep things going for another generation. If we don't, we can't really complain that someone else didn't...

 

I'm also becoming concerned about access to the outdoors. Every year it seems like there are a few more regulations and restrictions on using public land. Most everything around here is getting turned into Wilderness Areas. Kudu talks about patrols camping 300 feet apart - if you're going into a Wilderness Area you can't have more than 12 in your party, so with two-deep adult leadership, you can't even take two full patrols anyway. There are plusses of course, but overall I see it getting harder to just go explore the great outdoors. I'm saddened that BSA isn't doing more to fight that. Seems like they could generate a lot of support for maintaining access.

 

Stosh mentions the sheer bureaucratic burden involved. Amen. Sometimes I think we're the Bureaucracy Scouts of America. I'm worried we are normalizing bureacracy, teaching kids that there's nothing wrong with thousand page book of regulations covering anything and everything.

 

Eamon mentioned the age structure. I'm not sure it works either. Seems like we start Cub Scouts too young, burn the adults out at Webelos and lose a bunch of kids who get bored with it all (except for PWD!). Clearly the corporate side of Scouting has become Cub Scout focused - it's where the bulk of the membership is. But as much fun as Cub Scouts can be for the kids and for all the good things it does for them, it's no where near as vital as Boy Scouts. The official Boy Scout program seems to be degenerating into a four year advancment dash so the kids can "Eagle-out" before they get their Driver's License and drop out, with Venturing being the back-up plan to keep them enrolled if they actually like hiking, camping, etc. I suspect the trend will continue, though I wish it wouldn't. At the volunteer level we can still make adjustments.

 

I also wonder if we might run into a Charter Org crisis at some point. Civic groups have become so weakened in general in our society, it worries me.

 

Ultimately though it is all on our shoulders as the unit volunteers. We can complain about watered down programs and increased paperwork from National, we can vent about obnoxious DEs or Council decisions, and we can get frustrated about how "that troop over there" is doing it all wrong, but we can still make a huge difference with our unis and the young men who belong to them.

 

10 years from now I hope my son will have aged out an active scout, with whatever rank he gets, and he and his troop-mates will remember Scouts as fondly as I did. We'll see.

 

 

[Eagledad]

>>10 years from now I hope my son will have aged out an active scout, with whatever rank he gets, and he and his troop-mates will remember Scouts as fondly as I did. We'll see.