DE VS Unit

[fred8033]

Applications, money and camping registrations are always a pain in the ....

 

Since our pack is very healthy right now, so we have some flexibility.

 

- If we get an application, we submit it. Money or no money. If they took the time to fill it out, we'll get the kid on the roster and he starts getting Boy's Life mag. Essentially, we want the kids in scouts.

 

- If they paid their dues, we re-charter them, active or not.

 

- If they did not pay their dues, I call the den leader. Are they actiev? Family or job issues? If they are active, I re-charter them. If they are not active, I don't re-charter them.

 

- If no family issues exist, I will contact the family about paying dues.

 

- If they lost a job or other issues, the committee agreed that the Cubmaster and I (CC) can privately make a decision to waive the dues and other costs.

 

- We have one family where the mom is minimally employed and the dad is unemployed recovering from three heart attacks, illegal drug addiction and other bad things. The boy loves scouts, camping and has a great attitude. For that family, we pay for camps and everything that we can in scouting.

 

 

When we looked at the net financial affect in the pack for dues, it was less than $100 per year. Supporting the one family is about $300. Our pack dues are $40 and we fund raise $7000 each year.

 

Our attitude is that we are trying to minimize volunteer headaches. If we get 90% to 95% of the families paying dues, we're happy. We're not paid as volunteers to be a collection agency. Also, we don't want to take parent issues out on the scouts.

 

- For camp, when you ask to register your scout for camp, we ask for the money there and then. Your not registered until we get money ... officially. Unofficially, if I know you and can depend on you to pay, we'll register you.

 

(This message has been edited by fred8033)

[Abel Magwitch]

Totally unacceptable. The DE needs to go.

 

I really feel for you Basementdweller. I can relate.

 

In my council, one of the tactics used by the professional staff to get numbers is to have recruitment nights at schools and libraries, specifically for Cub Scouts. (they are not interested in Boy Scout recruiting).

 

Kids are immediately signed up for Cub Scouts and are told to pay their meager pro-rated fee. And that's it. The kid is now a registered member without ever visiting a Pack. Then the parents are given information on several Packs in the area. Imagine the surprise of the Cub Master when a new kid shows up at a Pack meeting and says he is a member of that Pack. Then imagine the surprise of the parents when they are told by the Cub Master what the annual dues are. Then many those parents will say "we did not realize there was more to pay. We were never told about dues. We were told that we had already paid the fee". Then that new Cub Scout will never visit a Pack again. The parents will not take the time to get their $5 back. But to the DE, he has met his critical. The kid is a registered Cub Scout until the end of the year regardless if he ever actually joins an individual Pack.

 

Business as usual for the paid Scouters.

(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

[Basementdweller]

I am the CM with a CC who has been in the job for 1 month or so........he has his training. I just don't want to toss him to the wolves yet. COR is retired in position.

 

I need the Cc to get a few committee meetings under his belt to gain some confidence then give him more stuff to do, well the rest of his jobs.......that are part of his job description.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[Basementdweller]

Ya know what I feel like we are succeeding with our program despite what the district is doing. I am mystified. By this when they keep sending scouts our way.

[5yearscouter]

Even with a new CC,

it's not really the CM's job to track down parents who have submitted applications and not paid.

hand the applications back to the parents, and tell them their scout is not registered without payment.

or hand the applications to the treasurer whose job is money, and have them track the parents down for payments

or hand the applications to the den leaders who presumably see the kids each week, and have them collect the $.

lots of other people could collect the $, you keep a list of scouts and their parent's info if you want to follow up if the above people drop the ball, but you don't have to be point man on the collecting of money if it's giving you this much grief.

 

tell the DE, oh we had a few interested scouts, but they seem to have changed their minds. sorry I'm sorry if you thought they had completed applications and made payments to join. I'll let you know when I get any new scouts.

 

There is a huge issue with packs and troops who collect applications and payments and don't register the boys in August when they join--and intead wait until recharter to turn in the applications, which in our council seem to not be processed until March or April even though they are turned in November. Insurance would probably still cover them if they get hurt between August and April when the application is processed, but I certainly wouldn't blame the insurance company for denying the claim if info about the scout and payment is collected in August but insurance doens't know about it for 6+ months later. That isn't fair to the insurance company that we really want to have a good relationship with and want them to continue to cover our activities for the small price we pay.

 

in my pack, if parents don't fill out an application AND make some kind of payment committment, then I know 90% of them won't be back for the next week's meeting. they were just feeling things out, and filled out the application more as a I'm sort of interest form, rather than I really want to join form.

[83Eagle]

Kids are immediately signed up for Cub Scouts and are told to pay their meager pro-rated fee. And that's it. The kid is now a registered member without ever visiting a Pack. Then the parents are given information on several Packs in the area. Imagine the surprise of the Cub Master when a new kid shows up at a Pack meeting and says he is a member of that Pack.

 

How can that be? The youth application has a spot for the Unit Leader to sign. So unless the unit leader signs the app, how can the boy be part of the Unit?

[The Blancmange]

>>>>How can that be? The youth application has a spot for the Unit Leader to sign. So unless the unit leader signs the app, how can the boy be part of the Unit?

[5yearscouter]

Application says

Unit leader or designee

SE designates himself

 

Council signs them up to the unit that the SE sees as the closet unit to where the scout lives. I'm not sure what they do if there are more than one unit, flip a coin?

 

we have a district wide recruiting night at peter piper, and one in the spring at the zoo,

scouts show up and pay the minimum to join, and the district people take the apps and fill them out with units and turn them in. They do INVITE all the packs to send a representative, and to provide a parent info page with cost, meeting locations and nights and meet the new people. but if your pack doens't go, you might still get newbies.

 

we would get 3-5 new scouts at the zoo each year, middle of May when we've mostly finished the year, have 1 den meeting and 1 pack meeting usually left, too late to sign up for day camp it's full. so those 3-5 scouts usually drop out before they ever really become active. of course they may just be going out to the zoo for the discount--instead of $20+ per person, it's

[packsaddle]

When I was CM, it took me two years to realize that the DE is NOT there to help. At best the DE can be a neutral influence so I cut my losses by minimizing the interactions. But as far as the money goes, we were a little better off I guess. I was only out of pocket a few $hundred each year so I'm not complaining too much.

 

Here's my advice: Just say no. When they start yelling and screaming, they've essentially handed you all the power and that is to continue to say no. The yelling and screaming does nothing. You can ignore it. Get the applications in when you can. Send the money that you need to. And just ignore the noise.

My DE would threaten not to recharter us. I'd say, "OK, I'll send word out to the parents." That would really piss him off too. But those deadlines and that paperwork is just bean counting. Get it done when you can and don't sweat it.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Abel Magwitch]

5yearscouter answers the question.

 

Believe me, it happens. And not just with recruiting. DE's will fill out and sign quality unit forms to make their quality district criticals.

 

A few years back, our troop treasurer stopped getting bank statements. Then she received a bank statement with a different name and troop on it sent to her address. Upon researching at the bank, it was found that the account name had changed. Our troop's statements were ending up at a different address. When we got the addresses fixed, it was then noticed that there was a subtle change to the name of the account. Originally the account was Boy Scout Troop xxx at the blank church in c/o of treasurer at her address. The new account read Boy Scout Troop xxx at blank council. We inquired who changed the account name. All the young banker could tell us was when it changed. He helped us rename the account to Boy Scout troop xxx doing business as blank church. The bank account was attached directly to the sponsoring institution. Now here is the interesting catch - during the time the account changed its name, the vice president of that bank was the council president. Seems that all Scouting accounts at that particular bank went through a name change attaching the accounts to the council. Funny how these things sometimes work.

 

We have had no problems with our Troop account since. That SE has moved on to bigger things.

 

A little thing like getting a signature doesn't stop those in management from doing what they want to do.

 

[Lisabob]

You know what basement, I think it is time you just start ignoring your DE. And possibly most of the rest of your district. Run your program (as you are already doing) and enjoy the boys.

 

Hand off the necessary paperwork and interaction with "council" to somebody else, and don't pick up the phone if the DE calls your home #.

 

It takes a lot for me to get to a point where I'd say that, but what you describe is just unacceptable behavior by your DE.

 

 

 

 

[Scoutfish]

" ....during the time the account changed its name, the vice president of that bank was the council president. Seems that all Scouting accounts at that particular bank went through a name change attaching the accounts to the council. Funny how these things sometimes work. "

 

UH-OH!!! Looks like somebody broke the law! I bet the higher ups at corporate of that bank wouldn't like that at all..especially if you told them it might get a spot in the local newspaper or tv news.

 

Bet National wouldn't like haing BSA's name attached to that either. Sounds too much like a potential enbezelment case just waiting to happen.

 

 

[Eagle92]

I know Round Ups were a PITA for me when I was a DE. PTB wanted me do do one thing. Namely to get the family to pay the rest of the charter year, and the next year up front. So if Pack 123 had 3 months left on the charter, the new scout paid for a year and 3 months. While I usually had pack reps at the RUs, sometimes I didn't.

 

Some of my units wanted it this way: Do the RU and let the unit handle the applications and money. let the Cubs come to a few meetings to see if they like the program or not.

 

 

Luckily I like what we are doing now. Pay for the remaining charter TELLING THE PARENTS about Pack Dues and when they are due. That helps.

[83Eagle]

I still call shenanigans with being handed boys who signed up with the DE. The DE is not a designated rep of the unit unless the unit designates him or her. The unit does not have to take all comers. Am I wrong here?

 

One of the important parts of recruiting IMO is to meet the parents and explain how your unit works, and that just doesn't mean what night of the week it meets.

 

Again, am I wrong here?

[John-in-KC]

I do recruiting as part of fall campaign for Cubs. In our District it's a team effort between the Unit and the District level volunteers.

 

One of the things I urgently recommend Packs I come and recruit for do is make sure they know what funding they need from Mom and Dad for the first 15 months of Scouting. The number I tell them that Council expects is the sum of BL + registration now, but they need to plan for recharter immediately, since that cycle begins 1 November for renewal on 1 January.

 

As far as Council accounts, when I was a CC, I made very sure our balance was $10 or less after each major event cycle. The DE cannot suck it dry if there's nothing there to begin with.