Sharing space with another unit

[OwntheNight]

A Little History:

Our pack is chartered by a church in the area, this church allows a "Friends of Pack xxx" to use the gym, and meeting rooms for den and pack meetings.

 

Last night, I arrived at the church for our Pack meeting, pulled up to the gym side to start unloading the car and noticed cars that didn't belong to members of our pack. I realize that this other pack is setting up for their pack meeting. I am on the phone with my CC, "We do have the gym reserved tonight, right?" She says, "Yep, got the email from the church secretary" So I make the walk into the gym, introduce myself to the CM, and explain the awkward situation to her. Now, in their defense, their pack meets on the 3rd Monday of the month for pack meetings. Our pack meets on the last Monday for pack meetings. We did schedule the gym, back in July, for this night though.

 

So, my CC and ACM arrive, and we step outside to talk. 2 options, Be jerks and force them to move or take the high ground and find another area for our boys. We chose the latter, moved to the front of the church and had a great carnival and cake auction. Boys didn't care where our meeting was, we adapted,improvised, and overcame.

 

COR came by our meeting later on to check on us, and our CC gave him a mild tongue lashing about this. He said he would check on the scheduling snafu. Apparently, the way the scheduling works, The Troop has priority over the gym and youth loft for scheduling. Everybody else gets dibs on it when they request it, kind of first come, first served.

 

I bring all this up, because this is the 2nd major event we've had scheduling snafu's with this other pack. The first being our join scouting night. We had 2 large rooms scheduled to use, and this other pack was given a room literally across the hall for a meeting on the same night and time. We actually lost a couple of boys, that wanted to join our pack, to this other pack because of the confusion it caused with new parents and boys seeing a sea of tan and blue shirts all around. We broached this with the COR at that time, and were told in no uncertain terms to just deal with it. We've also been told that we should be glad the boys are in Scouting, no matter what unit they're with.We've also had a couple of minor instances, where this other pack tends to use the doors on the side of church where our pack meets, instead of the doors on the side of the building they use. Once again, mild confusion especially on the nights that pack meets off property, and I have some of their boys show up in our den meetings.

 

I understand as a christian and as a scouter to be helpful to others, and I'm glad this church wants to help out a pack, but at what point should there be some loyalty to the unit that the church actually charters? We have a great relationship with our CO, they are very supportive of our pack, but this is just one of those things we don't see eye to eye on. It is like a pebble in a boot, small ,but annoying.

 

I'm sorry if I sound like a whiny brat, who's not getting his way, but Thanks for letting me vent.

 

So, how do you deal with other units in your location, or how should we address this? My CC is meeting with the COR on Thursday for other business, but will probably bring this back up again.

 

 

 

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

One thing you could try would be coordinating your schedule directly with the other pack to identify any conflicts if they are willing to cooperate.

[Nike]

It sounds like both CCs need to have regular calendar meetings as well as agree about entry/exit locations.

 

Does the church post a room assignments calendar? That might also help the wayward.

[Eagle92]

While my troop did not have the exact same problem, ours was similar. We had booked rooms with the original CO in advance, then at the last minute change them on us for whatever was going on with the CO. Because of the constant last minute rescheduling, as well as other issues (our storage room ransacked, and when we moved everything to an outside storage shed, the CO used it as a dartboard, causing lots of damage) we found a new CO.

 

 

What my current pack does is works with the CO's main office that handles scheduling.For the most part we are good, but every now and then something slips through. CO has grown so large, and has so many activities, that they are in the process of building a separate building for youth programs.

[qwazse]

Sounds like "just one of those things" that makes your CO special! The best you could do is emphasize with your COR that you would rather not be bumping into the other pack on the same night, and ask how much more trouble it would be for the church secretary to call each pack's COR to review the season's schedule.

 

If that doesn't help, work directly with the other pack to minimize overlap. And, when there is overlap, see if there's a way you can share resources (e.g., a common snack time after the meeting, etc ...). I've generally found it works best when units leverage the positives in the situations handed to them. Turn that pebble into a nugget!

 

P.S. - Historically, Christians have done some pretty nasty things when it comes to turf, so don't let that stop you. The only thing that's really holding you back is that you're a scout.

[Jay K]

I do suggest the you confer directly with the other unit's adults. Then, once a relationship is established, find out:

Who is their Charter partner? Why do they need to use your Carter partner's facility? I'd confer with my District Executive on this; he/she should know what's going on with that other unit. Is there a District Commissioner about?

I do agree that you have a problem here, and that it needs to be resolved.

[shortridge]

My guess is the DE's response will be something along the lines of: "Why can't you guys just work this out between yourselves?"

 

If the CO has decided that it wants to be your sponsor but also let this other pack use its facilities, then that's its choice. The CO has the final say, and both sides have to deal with it.

[5yearscouter]

We share our scout lodge with several other units, most noteably another scout troop, a pack, some girl scout units, OA, and sometimes other scouting related meetings.

 

so we have a calendar yahoo group I believe it is(I don't do the scheduling) and everyone puts in their own dates, first come first serve, with a contact # in case someone else thinks they need to use the building they can call and try to work something out. The calendar all in one place to view is great so you can see who else is using the building on any day.

 

Add in some friendly cooperation to work out the conflicts. Occassionally someone forgets to add their stuff to the calendar yet show up on the date and they have to work out something on the fly. like one troop always uses sunday nights and the other Monday nights so they assume those are set nights and everyone else with "know" they are using the scout lodge those nights. there is a church nearby that will often take one group at the last minute, and there are lights and benches outside so often one group takes the inside and one group takes the outside.

 

do what you can to not feel it's you against them. work together, do scouting for food or some other yearly thing together to make it a more amicable and friendly situation.

[Scoutfish]

I pretty much agree with everybody else when they say that the two CC's and two CM's should talk directly and try to work out a schedula directly.

 

But one thing needs clarification:

 

"Now, in their defense, their pack meets on the 3rd Monday of the month for pack meetings. Our pack meets on the last Monday for pack meetings. We did schedule the gym, back in July, for this night though. "

 

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but what I get from that statement is:

 

"We know that they meet every 3rd Monday, but since we scheduled our event a couple months ahead of time, they should have to forfeit their regular meeting for us."

 

NOw, I may be wrong, and I am not saying anybody did anything malicious, but if the 3rd Monday is their regular pack meeting night, you would have to assume they are going to use that same 3rd Monday 2 months from now, 5 months from now, 9 months from now...18 months from noe......5 yerars from now..

 

Get what I mean?

 

Turn the tables and think - what if they go to the COR tonight, and schedual a ..whatever event.... for 4 months down the road on the last Monday night.

 

So you get bumped just because they ask for it 4 months ago?

 

The idfeal thing would be to pick a different night of the week for the special event, or have the event in place of a den or pack meeting night.

 

Personally, I'd try to maintain using the same night of the month to ensure that it doesn't come down to an auction type process where everybody is trying to undercut or pre bid the other unit to get a particular night.

 

 

[OwntheNight]

Thanks everybody for the great responses. I will be bringing these up with my CC.

 

After rereading my own writing, I realized I came off pretty harsh against this other pack. That is not the case, I have no problems with this other pack. My issue is with the scheduling procedure used by the church. Everything is scheduled through the secretary's office, and we either got double booked or somebody wasn't notified of the scheduling arrangements. I just don't know right now, we are still working through these to find out all the information available.

 

Our COR has said, he's going to get copies of all the schedules and start going through them instead of keeping the status quo. Apparently, the schedules from last year were just transcribed to the new calender, without regard to the new schedule requests that were put in, back in July, when we gave the secretary our entire year's schedule, and the other pack put their requests in July or August as well.

 

The church has always asked us for the year schedule in advance, just due to the amount of groups and activities this church supports on a weekly basis. So Lesson learned. After we turn in the schedule, we need to get confirmation from the secretary and COR that our dates were filled and either contact the CC of the other pack, either through our COR or CC to make sure no dates were double booked.

 

Nike- No, the church does not post rm assignments. We usually bring a white board and easel to den meetings and put them downstairs in the entry way we use. We have asked for a spot to put announcements and or display stuff, like in a permanent shadow box that can be opened up. They have not responded to that request yet. The building is still relatively new, so they don't want to add a bunch of stuff to the walls in the main building yet. It's OK for upstairs in the Youth wing.

 

JayK- Shortridge is right about this. This other pack is chartered by "Friends of Pack xxx", which usually means it's a group of parents who don't have an IH to report too, needless to say, no actual building available. Because leaders of that pack attend the church, they asked the church if they could use rooms for meetings. The church, being good stewards, said yes.

 

'Fish-We didn't find out about the 3rd monday pack meeting until monday night, when I was talking to the CM, that's when the light started going on, and it started making sense about every body being there. But also having an email from the church secretary telling us we had the gym reserved and could actually go in early to start setting up, just added another monkey wrench to the situation.This really was a product of the calender itself. Next week is a school holiday, and the following week is Halloween. We don't meet on School holidays and wanted the boys to have Halloween to themselves. Must be those planets lining up causing all the issues! ;P

 

Once again, thanks for the great insight and help.

[Jay K]

I spoke with my DE. He said:

1. An oganization can only have one charter for a pack.

2. When an organization charters a pack, they commit to providing a space for the unit.

So is this other pack operating without a charter? is their charter org listing "your" facility as their facility?

My DE said that if this was going on in his District, he would certainly look into it.

[qwazse]

OTN's neighbor pack is a "Friends of Pack ###" charter. One of the "friends" happened to have a relationship with that church and provided space using that building.

 

Two organizations, two packs, they just happen - through separate channels - to provide the same physical space.

 

And I suspect that neither unit wants the DE looking into anything. If you ask someone for a rule, they might just make one for you!

[Lisabob]

I was a membership chair in my district for a little while. I discovered that numerous organizations charter packs but can't actually provide the meeting space directly. For example, "Friends of " or "Parents of" charter orgs that do not have a physical location, or service clubs like the local Lions, etc.

 

One troop I know of was chartered by a service club that had dwindled over the years to just a handful of elderly members. The club met in somebody's living room. What they did to try to fulfill their charter obligation to the troop, was to help the troop identify places in the community where the troop could meet for free. That same school hosted all sorts of other outside groups, including a couple of cub packs. Scheduling was occasionally a challenge.

 

Point is, providing a meeting space doesn't mean the CO has to set aside a room in the CO's building. It could just mean that the CO helps the unit find a spot somewhere.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Yeah, I didn't think you did anythin malicious.

 

The Co may only be chartering one pack, but as a prominent member of the community, it can let anybody use the buildings: Other packs that don't have a physical location, that Ladies red hat society, women's clubs, men's clubs, youth groups, ball leagues, etc....

 

The other pack may just be using the bulding without being chartered their. Think free rent.