kari_cardi Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Scouters joke about our 'hour a week' volunteer jobs, we know it takes much more time to lead an effective and successful program. Most troops meet for 1.5 hours weekly plus a monthly outing, but it seems that isn't enough to do everything. How much time do you expect a boy to spend on scouts to be an effective and successful Boy Scout? What kind of time commitment does your troop expect for planning outings, skill practice, and advancement work? PORs? Anything I forgot? Thanks for any insight you can give! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle732 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I'd like to see my Scouts commit to 1.5 hours a week for a meeting and a weekend a month for a trip. I would expect more from PLs and my SPL. They should plan to get to the meeting a few minutes early and stay a few minutes late. The reality is I haven't been able to get this kind of commitment from most Scouts. What I see is a lack of commitment to the team, the patrol. There just seems to be no feeling of obligation to support the team, Instead I hear "I don't like (fill in the blank i.e. canoeing, backpacking) so I'm not going on the next trip. No sense of commitment, no feeling that going on a trip or attending a meeting supports the team. Just a lot of "If it's not what I want then I'm not doing it". I find it all very selfish and disrespectful to both the Scouts and the adults who work hard to bring a quality program. Wish I had the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Try patrol competitions, Eagle732. Not just on da individual events, but more like for a whole "season" where da patrols get to keep their current "record" of wins and losses and their "standing." Develop competitions where it's much harder (but not impossible) for patrols with fewer people out to be successful, and don't go chicken and decide "that isn't fair". If yeh hold firm, the peer pressure the boys will exert on their fellows, both positive and negative, will be awesome. No need to bribe 'em with special events or other stuff either. Just a token "best patrol of the season" patch or such is enough. Boys like competition for its own sake, not because they "get" something for it. In fact "getting" something cheapens it. Braggin' rights is what counts. Anyways, for sasha's original question, I think da successful units sorta expect 50% attendance or better. Truly youth-run units will have the PLC members puttin' in quite a bit of time - at least half of da time that they would spend on a high school extracurricular activity other than sports. Beavah Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerscout Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 "adults who work hard to bring a quality program" may be part of the problem. It is the PLC that is supposed to design the program after each PL talks to his patrol on what they want. Each PL is also responsible for his patrol's advancement. Posting a tally stick or chart at each troop meeting of each Scouts's rank and time in that rank is sometimes helpful to light the fire. To gain more time, you might consider a weekly patrol meeting separate from the weekly troop meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 "You get out what you put into it." That's my line to the boys. We have some pretty bad kids who are actually great scouts. Why? They commit to meetings (about an hour a week). They fit camping in their schedule (30 hours a month). They show up at service projects (8 hours a month). They fund-raise (4 hours a month). Then they should do a little work on advancement (1 hour/week, averaged over their career), plan outings (1-2 hours month). On top of it they are the privileged few who get SM's "special" attention (1 hour/month issue specific conferences!). Really, it's amazing that they want to put any time into this program at all! But keep in mind that kids this age are just beginning to load up their schedule, and most of them would not understand a time commitment if you gave it to them. Time involvement is a quantity that may help parents more than boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle732 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Boomer, You took what I wrote out of context. Notice that I wrote "both the Scouts and adults who work hard to bring a quality program" and I put the Scouts first. Yes adults are involved, that's why we have a SM, ASMs, CC, CMs etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari_cardi Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Thanks, Beavah and quazse, your answers were very helpful. Eagle732, I wish you the best as you work through the commitment issues you've described. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 After our "re-boot" we have been hitting patrol competitions pretty hard and it really seems to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 BTW, E732, I am getting the "I don't like" talk from my crew officers. They don't realize that language like that comes off as "I'm not going to help you put together the program you may enjoy." I chalk part of it to outright selfishness. Part of their motivation for joining a crew was to get away from the littlun's (i.e. younger scouts). Now that they're bigger biggun's, someone needs to do program, that someone is them, and there's nowhere to hide. Part of it is burn-out. Expenses have increased and earning potential has not, so they need to work harder to afford their adventures and support their families. (If they were in the "bad kid" category, the "no free lunch" reality has hit them hard.) My best officer material pull double shifts (be it at work or college or boot camp) to make ends meet. That leaves little time for venturing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dg98adams Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 A little off-topic.... I know the Crew that my Life Scout son goes to is managed more by the girls (including his twin sister) in the crew than the boys. Are the Scouts burned out from providing leadership/direction to the Troop, maybe... probably. The Crew advisor does a good job putting it on the Crew to plan/execute activities..... I wish the Scout Master of the Troop would put more in the hands of the Troop PLC (too Type-A to let the PLC fail). Doesn't seem to follow thru with the SPL/PL in the patrol meetings. Sometimes they do what they planned, sometimes they get over-ridden or the activity gets changed last-minute. Personally, I think that kills Scout-Incentive to change ad-hoc like that. They decide "why-bother" since it's gonna change. Then they quit preparing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 The hard truth is that there isn't a magic number. Boys will participate in the things that they enjoy. Sure a quality program is very much a big part of it all. But even with the best program in the world, different kids have different activities and all too often these activities lead to commitments that take up their time and take the time they have away from Scouts and Scouting. Many Troops have Scouts who play in the School Marching Band, this takes up a lot of their free time. I was always a very active Scout but I was involved in School plays and at times this got in the way of my Scouting time. Younger Scouts have a lot less commitments than older Scouts. All we can do is our best to ensure that the program is good and that when Scouts are free to attend the activities we welcome them back and don't hold them being busy against them. Ea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerscout Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Sorry, Eagle732 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle732 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 No problem boomerscout. I'm a little sensitive over the boy led thing. I've had major battles with my COR who wants an adult led troop which I refuse to do. The PLC decided last meeting to put the ASPL in charge of game/competitions for each meeting. I'm hoping for some activity each meeting. Eammon, when you say boys will participate in what they enjoy you infer that they won't participate in the things they don't enjoy. It's this selfish mind thought I'm having a problem with. When I was a kid in Scouts many years ago it was a given that I would go on every camping trip. By the time I made Eagle I had only missed one camping trip and that was because I was at JLT (NYLT today). Today my guys pick and choose what they want. Most could care less about their patrol, it's all about what "I" want. Of course none of this applies to sports, miss a practice and you don't play the next game. My son missed two baseball practices for Conformation and he sat out the next two games and didn't get on the All Star team. Meanwhile I have a small group of adults who rarely miss a camping trip, they are more committed than the Scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venividi Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 duplicate post. sorry(This message has been edited by venividi) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venividi Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 > Today my guys pick and choose what they want. Most could care less about their patrol, it's all about what "I" want. Interesting observation, Eagle732. And yet we see many troops catering to that philosophy. Even supporting and encouraging it without even realizing it. MB universities, Eagle badges at summer camp, credit for wearing a POR patch, combine patrols on campouts because of low participation rates, tell kids that they should strive for Eagle, find ways to "interpret" a requirement". COH's are filled with giving out individual awards and recognition rather than patrol awards and recognition. Many adults take pride in "helping" scouts earn Eagle, and in so doing, take away the very thing that boys take pride in.(This message has been edited by venividi) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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