Fiscal responsibility

[momof2cubs]

I need some advice.

 

Starting some time middle of the school year last year, our treasurer started making a lot of noises about our Pack being over budget. I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to it, because...well, I didn't think it my place really.

 

Now, since the beginning of this school year, it is NON-STOP talk about how we cannot sustain our pack and consequently they have raised the prize for fall family camping and the treasurer is making noises about raising registration fees, cutting back on what awards the pack pays for, and on and on and on.

 

So last month I told our CC that I had pretty much had it with the over budget complaints and that I, as a committee member (as well as ALL other committee members) have the right to take a look at the budget and the right to have some kind of report that shows where the money is going.

 

So far all the CC and the CM have encountered is resistance from the treasurer about providing said reports.

 

So common sense says that committee members have the right to look at the books. But I am tired of the resistance and I want to throw the book at her.

 

So my question would be: where could I look for some written rule that says that the treasurer is REQUIRED to show the books to committee members?

 

Is that something that each pack determines on its own? Say in the by-laws?

[BS-87]

It sounds like at best she doesn't want to show you out of embarrassment and at worst doesn't want to show you because of embezzlement...

 

Have the COR require her to disclose information to the Committee immediately at risk of losing her position. If that's not motivation enough then there's also the possibility for the CO to press charges...

 

Whatever the case, something's wrong and the Committee needs to see the budget, books, and possibly receipts of all transactions/deposits for the length of her tenure as Treasurer.

[The Blancmange]

Mom is right this is something that SHOULD happen, but there is no BSA rule that requires it. Given that the CO controls the unit, I would speak with the COR about the situation. If he/she is aware of it and acquiesces in the current practice, then you cannot force a change. If the COR is unaware, he/she has the power to examine the books himself or direct that they be shown to the committee.

 

Regardless, this is not a good practice. In our unit, the books are an open book, so to speak. If anyone affiliated with the unit wants to see them, they are free to do so. The treasurer prints off a monthly summary and annually, a full report is printed and available to anyone who wants to see it.

 

You might also try talking to your unit commissioner. The UC doesn't have any authority to force them to do anything, but it is possible that a disinterested voice telling them this is not right may cause them to change their minds.

[momof2cubs]

You all have confirmed it. As my CM put it: "it's a volunteer position, I cannot MAKE her do it".

 

For the record, I do no suspect embezzlement; but I suspect that she actually has NO idea where the money is going and doesn't want to take the time to find out.

 

I'm reluctant to bring the COR into it..but I might. What I will do is keep asking, in public forum during committee meetings, until I see it. I already told the CM that this isn't going away.

 

Thanks!

[Lisabob]

Look, she's a volunteer and you might not be able to "make" her do anything. But she is a volunteer for an organization, and the organization (CO) certainly can make her do something when it comes to financial transparency. An alternate approach - just because she volunteers to be the treasurer, doesn't mean the CO has to accept her offer to serve as the treasurer. It isn't unreasonable for people to want to see the books before agreeing to increase dues, etc.

 

If it comes right down to it, as a parent (not a leader), point out that you're unwilling to shell out more of your hard-earned money without a clear picture of how the pack currently spends its money. That oughta get somebody's attention, because you will NOT be the only parent wanting to know this, if the pack leaders decide to raise dues or fees.

 

Where's your CC in this? The CC should be able to tell her "I want you to share this at the next committee meeting." Committee members work for/with the CC, not the CM.

[Beavah]

Yah, momof2cubs, generally speakin' da treasurer should at least provide a summary report to the committee. But this does vary, eh? To the extent that the unit provides financial assistance to boys, I'd expect the books to be "closed", and generally speaking I don't think a large group of people should be made privy to other families' payment records. None of your business if Billy's mom always seems to pay late because of when her paycheck comes in, or half Billy's dues are paid by da ex-husband or grandma.

 

Best practice IMHO is to have a small group of folks with da necessary skills and discretion do an annual internal audit. Not a full-out professional audit but enough to verify that things are being handled well and are in order. Between audits, someone other than the treasurer should be sent copies of the bank statements. Together, this helps guard against "temptation" and provide a relatively quick alert to potential problems, without generating some of da occasionally dysfunctional adult behavior that "open" books can cause.

 

A big pack might do a full - out annual budget and track it monthly, but by and large that's more effort than most packs seem to be willing to put in given da relatively small amounts involved. Operating more informally is fairly normal. Troops and especially units that run high-adventure trips tend to see more material cash flow and their youth (and adults) are encouraged to do more budgeting.

 

Beavah

[momof2cubs]

Beavah, no one and least of all me needs to know who is paying what and when. Not that this is an issue in our pack. Any kind of financial arrangement with a parent is extremely rare. It hardly ever happens.

 

What I want to know is much simpler. I want a simple report. Something like this (numbers are made up):

 

Registration fees: $8,500

BSA fee: $1,500

Net Income: $6,000

 

Books: $1,000

Neckerchiefs: $ 500

T-shirts: $ 500

 

Available for Op Costs: $4,000

 

And then on a month to month basis, how much money we are spending on awards, pack supplies, etc.

 

I am not sure that this is too much to ask. No one is asking for details as to why (for instance) registration income is $8,500 or $7,000.

[eisely]

As others have pointed out, there is no requirement for regular treasurer reports, and no formats for such reports are provided.

 

It is very odd that the person who is predicting insolvency is refusing to share the information upon which she asserts her claim. The committee chair needs to assert him(her)self about this, and if there is no response the chartered organization representative needs to get involved. Some kind of audit by a specially appointed committee is likely also in order.

 

When I have taught Troop Committee Challenge in the past and discussed the various positions, I have always pointed out that requiring regular treasurer reports is a valid mechanism for internal control of the funds. Other than the effort involved in doing that, no treasurer should be offended by or refuse such a request. If your treasurer continues in her resistance to sharing information, you need a new treasurer.

[CalicoPenn]

According to the Pack Committee Guidebook, the Pack Committee is responsible for supervising the finances of the Pack.

 

According to the Pack Committee Guidebook, the Treasurer is responsible for providing monthly reports on the finances of the Pack at monthly Pack Leader's meetings.

 

According to the Pack Committee Guidebook, the Treasurer is responsible to provide updates, as often as required, to the CO on the Pack's finances.

 

According to the Pack Committee Guidebook, the Pack Committee Chair is responsible for managing finances through adequate financial records.

 

According to the Pack Committee Guidebook, the Pack Committee Chair is responsible for approving all bills before the Treasurer pays them.

 

 

I'd like to know who is making up the budget for the year if it's not the Pack Committee? How can the Pack Committee supervise the finances if they aren't being given written reports. Why isn't the Committee Chair requiring written reports? How can the Committee Chair approve payments if he hasn't seen a written report which includes the bank balance?

 

The CM is right, he can't make a volunteer do anything. But the CC can - s/he simply tells the Treasurer to prepare a written report on the finances - bank balance, budget, etc. and present it at the next Pack Leader Meeting, and do so for every monthly meeting thereafter. If the Treasurer refuses, the CC demands the return of the check book and all financial records immediately, and accepts her immediate resignation. End of story.

 

If I were the COR and you came to me with this, and the CC had not made these requests of the Treasurer, the unit would be looking for a new CC. If I were the COR and you came to me with this, and the CC asked for this information but was rebuffed, and decided to let it go, the unit would be looking for a new CC and Treasurer.

 

If I were on this committee, and the CC and Treasurer refused to provide written records of the finances of the Pack, I would be leaving this committee and potentially the Pack.

[Oak Tree]

I'm with Calico - the treasurer is absolutely responsible for providing monthly reports on the finances of the pack. It's not an optional kind of thing - that's the primary job of the treasurer. The CC definitely has the authority to demand it.

 

The reports do not have to be open to everyone, although I would expect that summary reports should be. But the report has to be available to the CC.

[Basementdweller]

just curious.....

 

Does the Pack use debit cards???? Are the checks two signature checks????

 

Do you guys approve expenditures at the committee level???? the only exception is the Advancement Chair who does not need prior approval for just awards.

 

Everything else we buy must be approved by the committee.

 

the treasure has absolutely no authority on her own to raise the prices on anything.

 

The treasurer shouldn't do the Pack budget. The job is managing the bank account and money into the accounts and monies out.

 

The budget is the job of the committee. I did the budget for our Pack and it was on google docs which is shared by the entire committee, the CC and CM are the only ones who have edit rights. We figured out what the Pack were going to provide, cost and then it is simple multiplication.

 

If our treasurer refused form me to see the books I would be on the phone to the CC and we would ask for her resignation. Just that simple

 

I hope for the packs sake she isn't stealing the boys money.

[momof2cubs]

Basement: the answer to all your questions is yes.

 

But as far as the budget goes, I have no idea. That's why I am making a stink about this.

[Papadaddy]

You probably can't MAKE her do anything, but any CO worth it's salt would be doing an annual audit of the books by an independent committee. In fact, the CC should insist on it, for the protection of everyone. It could as simple as sloppy bookkeeping, in which case you need a new treasurer. At the very least, there should be a Unit Budget Plan and monthly treasurer's reports to the Unit Committee (incl the COR) showing income/outgo and tracking against the budget. This is not an unreasonable request. If the unit is running out of money mid-year, there needs to be a budget review to see where the projections went wrong. This is a function of the Unit Committee, not solely the treasurer.

[qwazse]

You as a committee can do something ...

 

Move that lacking a financial report to guide your decisions, move that fees be held at previous years' levels.

Move to table any discussion about finances until a financial report of actual vs. budgeted expenses is presented.

Make plans for spending cuts until these issues are resolved.

 

This strategy is not without risk. You might assume that you cannot do a program when in fact you might have a balance on your account. But it's better to take the treasurer at her word and figure out what are the wrong assumptions about your budget.

 

Here's hoping that you all can find a fix soon.

[Basementdweller]

Dump the debit card.....we did that to gain control of our finances again.

 

The old CM was spending money with out approval. He would turn in receipts, but he did not have authorization to spend the money. He took his sons den to the zoo and the pack paid for it.....Yep bad deal.