Troublesome Unit Commisioner

[Thomas54]

 

So the Cubmaster from our charter's pack goes to a different troop when is son crosses over. While his was a Webelos he interviewed me for our troop and all he wanted to know was how soon could his son could get eagle.

 

OK so our troop isn't match.

 

Then they guy becomes a unit commissioner for the Pack but not for our troop (separate main meeting places for the two units). He spends the next two years steering scouts into his sons troop. Now he has Den chiefs from the other troop and is openly recruiting from our charter's pack into his son's troop which is from another charter.

 

Are unit commissioners suppose to be recruiting from units they serve into their home unit?

 

 

 

[Basementdweller]

You can send him packing. Or the Pack could ask him to leave.

 

I asked a unit commissioner to leave and asked our DE for a different one after an ugly cub scout uniform inspection.

 

 

He is just another adult scouter that doesn't get it.

 

[ScoutNut]

I would have a talk with your District Commissioner.

 

Actually I would have had that talk 2 years ago.

[qwazse]

Is he required to? No.

Is he allowed to? Sure.

Should he? Well, BD gave you his opinion, and to a point I agree.

 

Do you have boys who want to be den chief, and can't?

Are you boys letting the Webelos in the pack know how much fun you're having?

Are you inviting the Webelos (including their den chiefs, if they are from the other troop) to a couple of your troop's activities?

Are you inviting the Webelos from other packs?

 

Sure, you can talk to your Charter Org. Rep. and let him know you think this is a problem, but unless the Pack UC is bad-mouthing your troop, he's not your worst enemy.

[moosetracker]

He can not send him packing if it is not his unit that he is a UC for. If the Pack does not find it a problem, then they will not send him packing either.

 

Is your Charter Org Rep anyone that takes an interest in the BSA units they host? They should want a healthy Pack and Troop. If this UC is hurting the relationship between Pack & troop then they can get involved and send the UC packing.

 

If your COR is not interested. It is worth you speaking to your DE about it. The DE does not like to have a unit fail as it hurts his numbers. If the troop the UC is herding your cubs to is already large and this is causing your Troop to have issue that could cause it to fail if not rectified, the DE should be concerned enough to pull the plug on it.

 

You can put it in the light of it not being a fair and ethical practice ie "UnScoutlike". Can't think of what the word is, but he is using his UC position for personal gain.. And add words that would get the DE to draw the conclusion the activity will lead to a failing unit, which bottom line would be a black mark on his ticket.. Then the DE should feel compelled to stop the practice for one of two reasons. Because it is an unfair practice or due to his own personal incentive.. One of the two things should light a candle under his butt.

[Beavah]

Yah, this is another sad example of how da "warm body" approach to assigning commissioners is broken.

 

To be effective as a commish, yeh need extensive familiarity with da program you're tryin' to assist. So a fellow who has only been a cub scouter makes a poor Venturing commish and vice versa. Then, they actually have to have been good at what they did as a unit scouter. Then, they have to be able to get over themselves and realize that other folks are goin' to do things differently than they did. Da point of being a commissioner is the same as the point of being a unit scouter. You're there to help others succeed at what they want to do, not to do it yourself or accomplish anything yourself. A scoutmaster succeeds when his boys achieve their dreams and can continue without him or her. Same with a commish and units.

 

What yeh point out is why it's often best not to have active unit scouters in da commissioner corps in their own area of operations. They can't be effective and also be an advocate for a particular program they are involved in.

 

Have your COR contact your District Commissioner and let him/her know that the UC for the pack is not performing in a manner that appropriately supports da Chartered Organization's desires and you'd like an immediate replacement.

 

Then I reckon yeh still have some work to do rebuilding relationships with your pack, eh? Den Chiefs don't happen without both the cubmaster's and den leader's permission. Sometimes another troop is able to recruit because they're providing a level of service and attention where a CO's troop has been a bit neglectful.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Basementdweller]

Beavah......

 

Ahh the million dollar question.

 

Is the UC doing anything wrong?

 

Evidently in his mind your troops program is not as good as your competitors.

 

Like it or not Troops are competing for scouts. One boy from a neighboring troop transferred to a high adventure troop in the burbs. HE like their focus better and had the means to participate.

 

 

[Austinole]

Can you talk with the UC? Maybe it's just a case that he's most familar with his Troop. I know if I saw a need for Den Chiefs I'd approach the SM from the place I was most familar with. I would hope somebody would come talk with me if they felt I was doing something not scout like.

 

good luck either way.

[Beavah]

Ahh the million dollar question. Is the UC doing anything wrong?

 

I would say "yes".

 

Da ethics of work or volunteering is all about knowing who yeh work for and represent, and avoidin' conflicts of interest.

 

As a Unit Commissioner, the fellow is volunteering on behalf of da BSA's local council, and is there to represent da council's and BSA's interests by helpin' 'em fulfill the council's part of the Charter Agreement. That means to help the Chartered Organization implement and employ the Scouting program to meet its goals, and indirectly to help da children in a unit get the best experience they can.

 

So there's nuthin' wrong with a UC helpin' a Webelos 2 Den Leader connect with various troops in the area to check out, or even listening to what a boy and his family are lookin' for and offering suggestions for troops that might be a good fit. If asked.

 

Da conflict of interest comes in when the person in their role as UC is instead acting for the interests of another CO's troop (as SM or whatever). That's exactly da sort of ethical conflict a wise and honest person avoids assiduously.

 

I don't fault the man particularly, though I think any adult should really know better. Sometimes folks just don't pay da attention they should. I mostly fault da DC for makin' that UC assignment in the first place. Yeh always have to be very cautious assigning a UC who is or was recently a member of a unit to that unit. There are just so many different ways that can go wrong. This is only one of 'em.

 

Beavah

 

[Scoutfish]

So he's aUC for the pack, but not the troop of the same CO?

 

So then he dosn't actually owe anything to the troop right?

 

Now, It does sound like he's keeping you out of the loop, but that's where the real question is:

 

Why is he steering boys to the other troop?

 

Maybe he wants his son to be in an Eagle mill. Or maybe he wants his son in a troop that pushed just a bit harder than yours towards Eagle.

 

Maybe they have a slightly stricter Uniform expectatiuons, or maybe they do more/less service.

 

 

Can't really say since we do not know your entire conversation, the other troops conversation or the dad's mindset.

 

So, it may not even be that he thinks you are doing someting wromg...just that he wants something different than what your troop offers.

 

No biggie there.

 

The biggest conversation that tis guy needs is that he needs to realize that not every scout or scouit parent might share his visions.

 

Now as for him doing something wrong...well, that's a tough one. Is he doing something wrong, or maybe he thinks he is actually doing his job by steering boys away from a "lame duck" troop to one that is better.

 

Mind you, I am not saying you have a lame duck troop. I do not think your troop is bad. I am not saying the dad is right or wrong.....I am just saying that HE MAY THINK he is doing right by the scouts.

[Beavah]

I am just saying that HE MAY THINK he is doing right by the scouts.

 

Of course we all think our own units are da best units for boys to join, eh? That's just natural, and as a Scoutmaster you'd be expected to advocate for your unit and do da best recruitin' yeh could.

 

But UC is a different job, and it doesn't matter what he thinks. He's there to represent da council and help fulfill the council's obligation to the CO under the Charter Agreement. A good district commish, if informed, will pull the fellow aside and re-orient him to his proper job. And then place him somewhere else that avoids a conflict of interest which the fellow doesn't seem capable of managing himself.

 

B

 

[John-in-KC]

I'm a UC.

 

I owe my loyalty first to the Boy Scouts of America, the Local Council, and to my District.

 

I follow the guidelines: I am not chartered in a unit in the District I serve. (I'm chartered in a Venturing Crew as MC in another District).

 

This is ***A*** consequence when a District level Scouter still has direct ties to a specific unit.

 

My advice: COR calls the DE/DC today. Tells them the UC is no longer welcome on the property. If the District Leadership are unwilling to recognize this, the Chartered Partner will formally ban the UC from the property, and subject him to LE action should he then trespass.

 

Friendly? No. Gets the job done? Yes.

[Basementdweller]

Oh Beavah, I am not disagreeing, If the Pack UC was directing boys away from the Troop Chartered by the same organization.....I would be ticked off in a major way.

 

This is probably why they don't want active leaders involved in the UC core.

 

 

I would chat with the Leadership Pack and see whats going on. I know from converstions with other CM that Troops often take feeder Packs for granted. I am surprised how disconnected Packs and troops are.......We enjoy a strong relationship between the Pack and troop.

 

Is the troop inviting the Webelos to camp with them?????

 

 

[Lisabob]

I don't think that what's being described here is good, or desirable. I tend to agree with Beavah that this is what happens when you get a poor fit between individual and position, and that this guy probably has a conflict of interest that he may or may not even recognize.

 

That said, the problem is with the relationship between the pack and troop from the same CO. Thomas didn't say a lot about that relationship but I'd bet it isn't very strong (boys are crossing into a different troop, den chiefs coming from a different troop, etc.). There probably is a weak link here between the CO's pack and the CO's troop. I know that as a former cub leader, I was not impressed one iota with the fact that our pack & troop shared COs, because the troop was invisible to us. They didn't help us, didn't return calls or emails to pack leaders, and made no effort to reach out to us. Then they had the nerve to show up at our Blue & Gold and expect cross-overs - uninvited! How rude!

 

We didn't actively push kids away from joining that troop but nor did we do much to encourage it. We looked for troops that were there for us when we needed them. Now that was as a cub leader with little experience in boy scout troops. Today after having spent the last 6 years on the troop side, I can see things a little differently. Probably, that troop felt we had betrayed them, etc., etc. Really what both sides could have used is more open channels of communication.

 

 

Are there many adults with kids in both the CO's pack and the CO's troop? If so, they may be good people to help you bridge the divide. But overall, cub scouts and their parents and leaders will go to the places where they know people, and where they think they're getting a helping hand. If your troop isn't doing that, or if it isn't being perceived as such, then the question isn't "How is this UC hurting us?" and it is "What can we do to strengthen ties to the pack that shares a CO with us?"

[ghermanno]

Thomas54,

 

I am also a UC. Not registered in any Unit in the District.

 

My understanding of your posting is that your affiliated Pack has a UC that is steering boys into another Troop.

 

Is the UC registered in the Pack?

Do you have a working relationship with the Webelos Leaders and the Cubmaster?

 

If you are not actively recruiting from the Pack, don't think that they are going to hand the boys over just because the number match. Become active with the Pack, invite on outings, show the boys that your boys are having fun too.

 

My job as UC is to help the Packs/Troops/Crews that I am assigned to be successful. I will answer questions about units honestly but will not generally steer people to specific units. I am not thier recruiter.

 

Ask YOUR UC what is happening or ask your DE/DC where YOUR UC is.

 

My $0.02

 

Rick