(Practically) No More Pioneering Towers??

[RichardB]

Provide belay or fall protection above 6 feet?

[Eagle92]

Sometimes councils will expand NCS standards to everything, such as the NCS COPE standards. I remember at scout shows we built a "Bosun's Chair" exhibit. 2 tripods, one 30-40, the other 20-25 feet high, with wirerope (ok we cheated there )stretched out between the two and a bosun's chair ( essentially a board attached to rope and a pulley mechanism). Best recruiting tool for the troop, especially since we didn't have a feeder pack. Folks lined up for an hour or longer to ride.

 

 

But council stopped it b/c it violated the NCS standard. They didn't want the liability.

[RememberSchiff]

Yeah "Cupcake Scouts". Are scouts allowed to even climb trees these days?

 

Back in the day, I remember a tree climbing requirement for Wolf. Our trees were climbable but not tall enough for the requirement which I think was 20 feet maybe higher. I had to search the neighborhood. Mrs. Rice had a tall willow tree with many limbs. Perfect, now if only she said no. Mrs. Rice did not cooperate and up the tree (slowly) I went while Mom watched and said if I fell and broke my neck, she would kill me. Words of encouragement were different then.

 

Why mention this? Well I was scared of heights. If I climbed a tree it was just to the first limb within my arm reach. This requirement challenged me to go higher. Later as a Boy Scout, building three story signal towers for flag signaling were common. That was Scouting. We did things that other kids did not or could not do and we took pride in our accomplishments. Awards and the uniform were just reminders.

 

I see less challenge and adventure today. Sad indeed.

 

My $0.01,

 

P.S.

In appreciation of Steve Jobs an old joke "What's the difference between Apple and the Boy Scouts?

The Boy Scouts have adult supervision."

 

Would that we were more like Apple.(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

[shortridge]

Richard,

 

Was that a question or a statement? If a question, to whom was it directed?

[RichardB]

Yes, to the OP: Had belay or fall protection been discussed for projects with fall exposure over 6 feet.

[BadenP]

 

"You are not going to have time to learn pioneering with the T2FC the first year and the Eagle in another year or two." - Seattle Pioneer

 

That SP is what is exactly what is wrong with the current boy scout advancement program.

Why do these scouts have to be rushed through scouting at all? Maybe because an increasing number of troops are running such a bland and boring program that the boys drop out after a couple of years from sheer boredom. With less and less time being devoted to the outdoor program skills like pioneering are disappearing rapidly.

 

Scouting is NOT supposed to be a series of classroom exercises which it has become,and it is really tragic that today a boy can receive his Eagle and not have a clue or the skills to survive in the woods. Maybe the BSA should be renamed the CCSA = Computer Cupcake Scouts of America.

[sailingpj]

Sea Scouts still do plenty of things that require going 20+ feet in the air.

 

Breeches Buoy -

- This crew had a ok time, not great though, and I am pretty sure they got a couple penalties.

 

Rope Climb - Climb a 18'-25' rope.

 

Boatswain's Chair - Tie a french bowline around yourself and with the aid of another crew member ascend 18'-25' feet and touch the block.

 

Scuttlebutt - Not something you climb on, though we have used people for weight in the barrel when practicing. -

[Eagle92]

Sailing,

 

 

SSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH, don't let national know some of the cool stuff Sea Scouts are still allowed to do due to the nature of sailing.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Baden P,

 

 

:>

 

 

I recently attended District Membership Chair training conducted by our council VP-Membership.

 

 

Most of that was fine, but she was selling the national "1st class in a year" program deemed to be the reliable way of retaining Boy Scouts.

 

She also soft peddled the idea of "boy leadership," saying this wasn't realistic and that leadership should properly be a partnership between adults and youth.

 

She is a veteran Cub Scouter, but I don't know that she has had much to do with Scout Troops.

 

As a Scoutmaster, I aimed to provide training in trail to first class skills on outings, but my emphasis was on learning skills. Often it took Scouts a two years-- even more, to attain 1st Class.

 

The 1st Class in a year model is for adult led troops, who will structure their programs to make that a goal and priority. I would suppose that continues with an Eagle in two or three year goal as well.

 

It's easy enough for adult led programs to parse advancement requirements and find the fastest and simplest methods to carry boys into the Eagle's Nest.

[BadenP]

Hey SP

 

Interesting council meeting you had. I am always suspicious of any adult with absolutely no experience in a particular scouting program advising other experienced leaders how they should run their programs. Someone gets put on a council committee and all of a sudden they are experts on everything. From her statement it sounds like more National propaganda to increase numbers of boy scouts by giving them a fast food easy road to Eagle approach to scouting versus a quality program where they actually experience and learn the skills of camping and surviving in the woods.

 

Making sure troops are adult led insures all troops use Nationals classroom scouting program model where the leaders have to do virtually little to no hiking, camping, or any other outdoor activities. There is even one troop in our council that does ALL of their outdoor requirements in a vacant field near their meeting place, they never go camping or to the district camporees, and they have the councils approval. If this is indeed the future of the boy scouts then we are all in serious trouble.

[Eagle92]

SP

 

Yeah I know about the FCFY program and about the stats that "prove" it as a successful tool to keeping members.

 

BUT what I'm willing to bet is the scouts who were part of the initial FCFY research in the pre-1989 period, back when there were time requirements for T-2-1, those scouts were members of active troops that went camping year round. Thus they had the opportunity to wrok on outdoor advancement.

 

BP,

 

Agree with your 100%, love it when "experts" come in to tell me how to run program, when they have no experience.

 

 

ON ANOTHER NOTE (caps to note a change in subject.

 

The key IMHO to keeping scouts is PROGRAM, PROGRAM, PROGRAM! (and yes that is shouting). I've seen units where there is a high number of Eagles, but have few 15-17 yo scouts in the unit. Create a great program, and folks will not only come, but stay!

[sailingpj]

That wasn't even counting sailing.

 

The Koch Cup next summer could very well end up looking something like this:

 

[Eagle92]

Sailing,

 

Don't tease me as I cannot get the link until I go home tonite. On another note, if i am not doing other scouting stuff, and SWMBO lets me go, I'm hoping to make it to the Cardinal Wardroom's Koch Cup Qualifier next month.

[TAHAWK]

"An approved climbing helmet must be worn during all BSA climbing/rappelling activities when the participant's feet are more than shoulder height above ground level. When using a commercial climbing gym, the climbing facility's procedures apply."

 

This is cited as the basis for a restriction on the height that Scouts can climb pioneering structures without a helmet. But I keep getting told that safety harness must be worn and can find no basis for that "rule."

[shortridge]

TAHAWK - My guess is that "rule" is derived from the other part of the NCS standard:

 

"All high activities (shoulder height or more above ground) must have a reliable protection system and backup system to protect participants."

 

But since "reliable protection system" is never elaborated on, we really have no idea what it means.